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Old 07-11-2013, 04:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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A look at Anderson Silva's legacy...

I was as shocked as most when Weidman floored Silva at the weekend. After watching the fight several more times since, I’ve started to question my own recollection of his previous fights and performances… Is it possible that Anderson isn’t as great as we have been lead to believe? Before we take a quick look at his UFC record as champion, I want to state for the record that I’ve enjoyed watching Silva fight, with a couple of obvious exceptions, and consider myself a fan…

(thanks to Wikipedia for the information)

10-14-06 Rich Franklin - Do we consider Franklin a true champion (I know he held the belt, but I’m sure you know what I mean) or a journeyman?
07-07-07 Nate Marquardt - Good fighter, but potential champion?
10-20-07 Rich Franklin - How much better was he this time?
03-01-08 Dan Henderson - Hendo is not my favorite fighter, but I consider this one Silva’s two best performances
07-19-08 James Irvin - He won three of his next nine fights and just stood there getting hit…
10-25-08 Patrick Cote - I don’t remember being impressed with this fight – although that might be due to the way it finished?
04-18-09 Thales Leites - Decision victory
08-08-09 Forrest Griffin - Another LHW that stood there waiting to be hit…
04-10-10 Demian Maia - HORRIBLE fight
08-07-10 Cheal Sonnen - I genuinely regret not seeing this live – but that being said, Cheal Sonnen might be well known, but it’s not for his ability to fight (and Silva was injured?)
02-05-11 Vitor Belfort - The other genuinely impressive performance since becoming champion
08-27-11 Yushin Okami - Do we consider Yushin to be “world class”?
07-07-12 Cheal Sonnen - The only thing that changed was Silva wasn’t injured. Opponent quality remained sub-par
10-13-12 Stephan Bonnar - Another LHW that just stood there getting hit
07-06-13 Chris Weidman - Oh dear…

So a couple of thoughts – we’ve all heard the phrase “iron sharpens iron” in other words, as a fighter you need to face a beat the best and keep being challenged in order to improve. Can we really claim that Silva has been challenged since he won the title?

I agree that simply winning that number of fights consecutively IS impressive, due to the sudden and numerous was that fights can end, but best of all time? (BTW a friend of mine from the twenty second century sent me a message recently – apparently we need to wait until 2094 before we start claiming best of all time…)

My final observation is that Silva has a Nike endorsement and nine/ten fights on his contract… it won’t surprise me if he fights (and loses) well into his 40s in order to keep the Nike and UFC cash flowing…. he claims no interest in the belt, but “loves to fight” – tell him to visit Bristol on a Saturday night – he can fight as much as he likes!

If Silva was genuinely the boat/goat then he would be scared to jump into a BJJ fighters guard – but hell, anyone tries to take him down and he squawks that a baby and insist that they “come on man, let’s fight”. The boat/goat would engage wherever necessary…

Silva was IMO just an overrated striker who was handed a long string of mediocre opponents.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You see things completely different than me! And back in the Day Rich was a REAL champion, things have moved on a bit from them, but at the time he was a great Champion.

He's been the champ in the hardest weight class in the UFC for all these fights, what he has done is unbelievable IMO.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
I was as shocked as most when Weidman floored Silva at the weekend. After watching the fight several more times since, I’ve started to question my own recollection of his previous fights and performances… Is it possible that Anderson isn’t as great as we have been lead to believe? Before we take a quick look at his UFC record as champion, I want to state for the record that I’ve enjoyed watching Silva fight, with a couple of obvious exceptions, and consider myself a fan…

(thanks to Wikipedia for the information)

10-14-06 Rich Franklin - Do we consider Franklin a true champion (I know he held the belt, but I’m sure you know what I mean) or a journeyman?
07-07-07 Nate Marquardt - Good fighter, but potential champion?
10-20-07 Rich Franklin - How much better was he this time?
03-01-08 Dan Henderson - Hendo is not my favorite fighter, but I consider this one Silva’s two best performances
07-19-08 James Irvin - He won three of his next nine fights and just stood there getting hit…
10-25-08 Patrick Cote - I don’t remember being impressed with this fight – although that might be due to the way it finished?
04-18-09 Thales Leites - Decision victory
08-08-09 Forrest Griffin - Another LHW that stood there waiting to be hit…
04-10-10 Demian Maia - HORRIBLE fight
08-07-10 Cheal Sonnen - I genuinely regret not seeing this live – but that being said, Cheal Sonnen might be well known, but it’s not for his ability to fight (and Silva was injured?)
02-05-11 Vitor Belfort - The other genuinely impressive performance since becoming champion
08-27-11 Yushin Okami - Do we consider Yushin to be “world class”?
07-07-12 Cheal Sonnen - The only thing that changed was Silva wasn’t injured. Opponent quality remained sub-par
10-13-12 Stephan Bonnar - Another LHW that just stood there getting hit
07-06-13 Chris Weidman - Oh dear…

So a couple of thoughts – we’ve all heard the phrase “iron sharpens iron” in other words, as a fighter you need to face a beat the best and keep being challenged in order to improve. Can we really claim that Silva has been challenged since he won the title?

I agree that simply winning that number of fights consecutively IS impressive, due to the sudden and numerous was that fights can end, but best of all time? (BTW a friend of mine from the twenty second century sent me a message recently – apparently we need to wait until 2094 before we start claiming best of all time…)

My final observation is that Silva has a Nike endorsement and nine/ten fights on his contract… it won’t surprise me if he fights (and loses) well into his 40s in order to keep the Nike and UFC cash flowing…. he claims no interest in the belt, but “loves to fight” – tell him to visit Bristol on a Saturday night – he can fight as much as he likes!

If Silva was genuinely the boat/goat then he would be scared to jump into a BJJ fighters guard – but hell, anyone tries to take him down and he squawks that a baby and insist that they “come on man, let’s fight”. The boat/goat would engage wherever necessary…

Silva was IMO just an overrated striker who was handed a long string of mediocre opponents.
If you really want to get technical who do you consider the best? You are completely ignoreing the time frame he fought these guys. Was Rich Franklin not the best MW at that time? Was Forrest Griffin not the best LHW 8 months prior to fighting Silva, Was Henderson the undisputed pride lhw/MW champ a mediocre opponent.

Look at Jon Jones let time go by and you can discredit every great fighter he beats. When you are the champ, everybody seems mediocre as there is no higher place/ rank they can get without beating you. If they don't beat you where do they go, or be ranked from there.

Here is a perfect example if I'm the great hw, and you are the second greatest hw, if you can't beat me, does that mean you suck? Does it discredit my legacy because you arent good enough to win the belt? At the end of the day the guys Anderson fought had a rightful path for a title shot.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You're outlook, observation, opinion, or dare I say analysis is askewed. Do me a favour, post this up on Sherdog and see what kind of a response you get.

Those were the best challengers at the given time frame. He risked his legacy on more than one occasion.

It's unfortunate there are "fans" of the sport who have that kind of thought process to trivialize what the GOAT has done.

To me it looks like this is coming from the lens of someone who just started watching this the past several years with limited training. If you've been watching since the 90's or even early 2000s and train to a degree then I would think you have a better understanding of the mechanics that goes behind each of those wins. For every one of those comments I can offer a rebuttal. Lets start with Maia. It's terrible because you wanted a finish. What you didn't see was that Anderson threw a flying knee on a moving target amongst a plethora of high flying maneuvers the first two/three rounds. Afterwards he completely toyed with Maia to prove a point. First don't disrespect me, second to the UFC...stop giving me BJJ fighters, third I can do whatever I want inside the Octagon treating it like a sparring match. That's mastery there although some would consider it polarizing.

You're right Irvin does get punched in the face a lot, but how many fights has he had where he gets knocked out in one strike. He's a very durable and powerful fighter with no name recognition. Zero upside for Anderson. It was a favour to counter program their competition at the time.

Rich Franklin was 22-1 only losing to Lyoto when he defended against Anderson.

Look at Vitor's fights the past several years and compare it to the fight he had against Anderson.

Look at Lyoto vs Hendo then look at Hendo vs Anderson.

Against Cote his movement won the fight. To the commoner you only catch 50% at best of what's going on.

The UFC desperately wanted to find someone who could challenge em. Look at the list carefully and you'll see very credible fighters with varying martial arts expertise; wrestling, BJJ black belts, boxing, Muay Thai, who posed the biggest challenge at the time.

I can keep on going.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethUFC View Post
You see things completely different than me! And back in the Day Rich was a REAL champion, things have moved on a bit from them, but at the time he was a great Champion.

He's been the champ in the hardest weight class in the UFC for all these fights, what he has done is unbelievable IMO.
The MW division isn't even close to the hardest division in the UFC and it never has been.

As for Silva, he was the P4P best because of the style of his finishes, not his opponents. If you read that list of names without thinking of how he beat them (although guys like Maia/Cote/Thales were pathetic victories), then you are right in that Silva has really not beaten great competition for the most part (there are a few exceptions), but it's how he won that got him that title.

Silva won't go down as the GOAT, his legacy and career will be passed up and it isn't going to take that long to do it (Jones probably will in a few years). In fact there are people, quite a few actually, who still give Fedor that title. For right now though he is definitely either the GOAT or as close to it as possible at this moment, and that will change in a few years (which is one reason why GOAT is silly to begin with until the sport ends), but his career/legacy is a great one and regardless of what happens in the future from now it is cemented in MMA's history as with all greats.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Anderson getting beat for the first time in seven years takes nothing away from his legacy. He is not overrated, Silva is one of the greatest ever and always will be.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Made it to the questioning of Rich Franklin as an actual champion.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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To quote the OP, I have family who have been permanently banned from Bristol town center for fighting, to include them in the same sentence as Anderson Silva is absolutely hilarious and serious warrant for banning from this forum.

IMO.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You're out of your mind if you think Silva is overrated. When he retires he'll be among the MMA gods with Royce Gracie, Fedor Emelianenko and Chuck Liddel. Seriously, I wish I had more hands so I could give this thread more than 2 thumbs down.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How come the guy's you mentioned just stayed there waiting to get punched when they in fact trying to put him away. Silva was just too good.

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