in your opinion how would Steven Segal do in MMA? - Page 6 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:56 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Machiavelli_08
Perhaps HexRei but I think being specific to Steven Seagal as a 7th Dan he is far ahead of many top fighters in terms of how devastating he could be...it's difficult to be specific and in terms of conditioning he would have issues if it were competition fighting but if he could employ all his techniques and not just random eye gouging or groin shots then I firmly believe he would "defeat" many more fighters than he is being given credit for...you don't become a master just by eye gouging which as you rightly state any fighter e.g. Chuck Liddell could do if he had to...
Nothing against Segal's fighting ability, which I can't judge because I've never seen him in a real fight against a real fighter, I believe we found out a long time ago how much the color of a guy's belt means, which is very little. Rickson Gracie is a 7th Dan himself. Sure, he's undefeated, but who has he ever fought other than an aging Funaki? Takada? Gimme a break. Bud Smith, whoever the hell that is?
The best way to see if a guy can hang in an MMA ring is to put him there. Maybe Segal can take Wesley Snipes up on his challenge. Sounds like fun.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:03 PM   #52 (permalink)
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There is a world of difference between aikido and brazilian jiu-jitsu. BJJ is a great martial art but it developed for a reason in that it succeeds in competition for the most part.

Aikido fulfills completely different aspect of self-defence and Seagal's in particular is an example of severe incapacitation. Lest you forget Aikido derived from traditional japanese Jiu-Jitsu from the Samurai's on the battlefields to fight when they were disarmed. Survival was the name of the game and hence this is reflected in the aikido techniques.

You're merely stereotyping Seagal because he was in the movies .Do not underestimate his many years of training particularly in Japan. At the end of the day a martial artist especially at his level would severely hurt an MMA fighter. Let's not forget MMA is a sport and MMA fighters train to fight and to win. Martial Artists and I include Seagal in this practice and live their arts as a vocation. They fight not to "win" if and when they have to fight, which they avoid having to, they do so as a matter of survival there are no tapouts or decisions. I don't think Seagal right now would win in an Octagon, or PRIDE ring...he's old and out of condition but approach him in the street and he will take his assailant down without hesitation regardless of how many KOs he has in MMA.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:16 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Machiavelli_08
There is a world of difference between aikido and brazilian jiu-jitsu. BJJ is a great martial art but it developed for a reason in that it succeeds in competition for the most part.

Aikido fulfills completely different aspect of self-defence and Seagal's in particular is an example of severe incapacitation. Lest you forget Aikido derived from traditional japanese Jiu-Jitsu from the Samurai's on the battlefields to fight when they were disarmed. Survival was the name of the game and hence this is reflected in the aikido techniques.

You're merely stereotyping Seagal because he was in the movies .Do not underestimate his many years of training particularly in Japan. At the end of the day a martial artist especially at his level would severely hurt an MMA fighter. Let's not forget MMA is a sport and MMA fighters train to fight and to win. Martial Artists and I include Seagal in this practice and live their arts as a vocation. They fight not to "win" if and when they have to fight, which they avoid having to, they do so as a matter of survival there are no tapouts or decisions. I don't think Seagal right now would win in an Octagon, or PRIDE ring...he's old and out of condition but approach him in the street and he will take his assailant down without hesitation regardless of how many KOs he has in MMA.
I'm not stereotyping anyone. Whether or not I like Segal's movies has nothing to do with it. What I am saying is you can never tell how well a guy will do in MMA -- which is what this thread is about -- unless you see him compete in MMA. The only thing a belt is good for is holding your pants up.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:21 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I want to put Seagal in the octagon with Gene lebell so he can get his ass choked unconscious again.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:57 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Ugh. So I did some research and I found this highlight reel of Segal's Aikido. IMHO hsi partners are assisting him and doing as much work as he is.

I think in an MMA fight his skill would be about as effective as this Kiai master's fake-ass moves, See how he fared in a real fight.
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His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His shield was heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target is far away.

Last edited by HexRei : 07-27-2007 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HexRei
I think in an MMA fight his skill would be about as effective as this Kiai master's fake-ass moves, See how he fared in a real fight.
Ah, the Kiai master! Classic! Do you know you that guy he's fighting is?
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:28 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Your comparison of Kiai to Aikido is simply insulting to a v.effective martial art and its practitioners. Stop putting MMA fighters on a pedestal. RNCs and armbars are not how fights finish in the real world.

They end with fractures and people ending up conscious. Passing the guard and learning kimuras and americanas aren't going to work if you can't get anywhere near your opponent without ending up disabled. And the Seagal videos are DEMONSTRATION VIDEOS they are used to demonstrate the techniques which guess what...are too dangerous to actually perform without breaking bones and tearing ligaments.

He's practicing in a Dojo with other practitioners who know the move he is going to perform because he is teaching and demonstrating. If he were to perform these moves on a person who does not know how to reach to them then they will be incapacitated. Why do insist on comparing a sport to fights on the streets? There are limits in MMA which do not exist in other forms of combat and in these other forms the techniques are about incapacitation as quickly as possible. Your conditioning for a fight will not necessarily prepare you for the mastery of the techniques which your opponent may have.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:33 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I have really tried to give Segal a chance man, but all the footage I can find on him online is obviously acted out. As you said- opponents who expect the moves and roll with them- imho, no better than a tumbling performance.
I'm not saying he couldn't beat an average joe but even in a street fight, I think most experienced MMA guys could give him a run for his money and any of the top guys would crush him. Because if Randy could use eyegouges, Segal would be on his back and blind in about ten seconds flat.

edit: for that matter, in a street fight, who knows how well segal would do? sure, he does great in the dojo during demonstrations against opponents who are attempting to get thrown, but has he ever been in a real street fight? I think he'd just clam up and lose, I bet Danny Abaddi could take him.
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His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His shield was heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target is far away.

Last edited by HexRei : 07-27-2007 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Your entitled to your opinion and guess we can agree to disagree.
I'd just like to reiterate a final point and then I guess my side of the matter would be complete. I do not think Steven Seagal right now could compete in the restricted conditions of MMA. He would not be able to employ most of his techniques and he's an old, out of condition man therefore Couture would take him down.

HOWEVER, I believe that on the street as soon as Couture approached him to start a fight then, with no rules restricting him he would take Couture down and I do not mean through eye gouging, and groin kicks because aikido goes far beyond those. Whether it be small joint manipulation or pressure point strikes he would use whatever works with great speed and accuracy. It only takes a slight move to avoid a takedown attempt in aikido/ninjitsu martial arts.

Finally, I still can't believe you've compared Kiai to aikido that's still quite insulting. Bare in mind one aspect of a Dan test for aikido is to deal with 5 opponents constantly attacking you for upto two oppenents without getting hit, a randori, now if you believe that is acting then you clearly misjudge aikido.

At least, we can agree to disagree and I feel I've made my points.
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:00 PM   #60 (permalink)
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The comparison was a joke. I have great respect for Aikido, I was mostly poking a little fun at Segal. I understand that the art itself is strong, but we don't really know how he earned that belt. Anyway, no hard feelings, and I'm glad we can agree to disagree
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