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Old 12-30-2007, 08:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flak View Post
See all that reasoning used to fly with me, but i kept expecting that eventually, more than a few would catch on. 7 out of 8 guys fail because of the cage and the rules? I don't think im buying it anymore.
Except it's a big change. It's not a small transition they are doing. Most aren't use to coming up with game plans, fighting in an octagon cage, etc plus haven't almost all of them had eight or so months off?

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What? They ALL have styles that don't work in the cage? Clearly a stalking stratergy like The CroCop's doesn't translate for obvious reasons, but few of these guys have that style. Is it not possible that the general level of competition in Pride was lower, so they looked better than what they are when stacked against UFC fighters? I'm beginning to think that's true.
I thought I said I wasn't even discussing their styles, but I would say that no, it is very unlikely Pride is worse. For one, when UFC stars went to Pride they never dominated or consistently beat Prides top stars. Shogun and wanderlei have both dominated Rampage so you can't really say they aren't as good as some of the UFC's top people.

Plus, half of the reasons for saying UFC is better are bullshit imo. Namely, Forrest Griffin, Cheick Kongo, Machida and Gabriel Gonzaga. Most of the UFC vs Pride discussion took place around it's demise and when it was these fighters were either nonexistent or not nearly as good as they are now. So, using fighters that are NOW better then Pride's top fighters seems unfair to me.

It's two different organizations, that's all in my opinion.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Heh, just got my first neg rep for this. Pretty funny one too considering the harmless nature of the post. You'd like i just tea bagged this dudes mum or something



Gutless wonder. If you're going to say something like that, at least have enough dignity to sign it.
Believe me bro, it wont be the last one ya get either. These types of discussions never go well.

I say let it go, cuz for the majority no one gives a shit anymore.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by plazzman View Post
Seriously man, just when we thought the UFC/PRIDE bullshit was done you go to the bottom of all MMA discussion and force this shit upon us again. let it go, we dont care, they were completely different organizations with completely different rules and types of fighters. Why must you be so inclined to know who has the better fighters? Are these people on the payrolls or what?
Why do i want to know? I've just always been curious to find out....you haven't? I just figured it was a natural question to ask. Everyone speculated for years, and now it looks like we're getting enough evidence to answer that question. Why is this topic such a faux pas?

Edit to add - I considered this different to the other times we have discussed this issue because now, for the first time, we've seen some Pride v UFC matchups. Before it was all just empty speculation, at least now i thought we had something more substantial and credible to talk about. Maybe my first thought was right....too soon for this thread.
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Last edited by Flak : 12-30-2007 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well Shogun Vs Forrest.
Shogun had knee problems, couldn't train cardio
Forrest needed surgery for 1 arm, fought with 1 arm, able to train cardio

End of fight, both very tired. Think about it now, if Shogun didn't train cardio for the fight and still tired Forrest pretty good who supposedly has great cardio. Now that tells us something. + Shogun still put on a fight.

Wand Vs Chuck
Stylistically was always a bad matchup for wand. Read my other posts, i said Chuck was gonna win, but his range was bad for wand.

And Sokky was overrated to begin with, he does have alot of power tho. He looked a bit nervous tho or something, but then you'd have to look at who he's facing.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:09 PM   #15 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by Flak View Post
See all that reasoning used to fly with me, but i kept expecting that eventually, more than a few would catch on. 7 out of 8 guys fail because of the cage and the rules? I don't think im buying it anymore.

What? They ALL have styles that don't work in the cage? Clearly a stalking stratergy like The CroCop's doesn't translate for obvious reasons, but few of these guys have that style. Is it not possible that the general level of competition in Pride was lower, so they looked better than what they are when stacked against UFC fighters? I'm beginning to think that's true.

We're not talking about a few Pride guys failing, at this point we're talking about EVERY Pride star failing except for Rampage. I expected growing pains etc, but it's getting ridiculous.

Its not that there styles dont work in the cage but they do need a few warm of fights to get used to it, Jackson got a warm up match against Eastman he didnt have to come in against a top level LHW his first fight, Im actually know alot of the guys in the UFC have been underated for years but there is a big diffrence in the size of the ring and the octagon and the lack of corners, fighters just have to figure out how to capatalize on the change of enviroment. The Pride guys are far from the monsters they were promoted as to though as the UFC could never put on the squashs Pride did because the Althletic Commisions would never allow such diffrences in skill.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak View Post
Why do i want to know? I've just always been curious to find out....you haven't? I just figured it was a natural question to ask. Everyone speculated for years, and now it looks like we're getting enough evidence to answer that question. Why is this topic such a faux pas?

Edit to add - I considered this different to the other times we have discussed this issue because now, for the first time, we've seen some Pride v UFC matchups. Before it was all just empty speculation, at least now i thought we had something more substantial and credible to talk about. Maybe my first thought was right....too soon for this thread.
Believe me bro, youre a good poster and this isnt a personal issue, its just that this question is useless and always causes the wrong outcomes.

PRIDE and UFC are two completely different things, just like PRIDE and PANCRASE were two completely different things, so its not really fair to assume who is better, since there are different rules, different game-plans, atmosphere, environment.

Now if both org's fighters fought in a neutral arena then maybe it would be easier to tell. Plus, its not very fair to assume who is better based on 1 or 2 fights. Just because Liddel beat Silva, or Machida beat Sokky, doesnt mean that UFC is officially better, because in reality that is just one fight from the fighters. Hey, you never know, maybe Wandy will come back and beat every single UFC opponent they give him, or like-wise for Sokky.

But if we begin to see all of the PRIDE dudes constantly lose to UFC fighters only, after numerous fights, then you can make a claim, but right now its completely baseless assumptions.

And the biggest problem with this question is that it creates MMA Radicalism where people begin fighting tooth and nail for their organization of choice, which then spawns complete idiots who will fight ignorantly for their org. of choice.
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