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Old 11-08-2010, 10:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Look at all the places that were paying a lot, most of them are not around anymore! MMA does not bring in truck loads of money yet, so it can not pay out truck loads!
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Shockingly the UFC is still around and Affliction isn't.

Anyone feel like paying Andre Arlovski $1 000 000 to fight Rothwell?

How bout paying Rothwell $250 000? Takers? ($1 250 000 for this one fight...)

How bout pay a washed-up has-been Lindland $375 000 to beat someone no one has ever heard of in match no one even remembers.

And hey while we are at it lets pay Tim Sylvia $800 000 to be subbed in under a minute. Money well spent and a great investment for the futu...

The UFC pays its fighters enough to keep them around and grow the business. That is what is important. That is all I care about. I don't care about making athletes millionaires. That will come as the sport grows and they prove they are worthy. Were the above worthy of the paychecks they got? Is that really what they were worth to Affliction?
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voiceless View Post
But do average people have the same risk of getting severely injured while doing their jobs¿ From my point of view I'd say that going pro as an MMA fighter is only worth if the probability is very high to quickly get into the elite ranks which in general is quite hard to tell at the beginning of the career.
Yes, actually. A good deal of jobs are incomparable more dangerous than MMA. Most pay around 30-50k per year.

Lumberjacking is an example of this,

Crab fishers make a bit more, but you get the idea.

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Well, a lot of UFC marquee fighters back in the day ditched the UFC for Japan because the pay was so bad.

BJ Penn for example, was offered four times the pay to fight in Japan. Penn was willing to take a lot less to continue fighting for the UFC, but Dana gave him the finger and told him to never come back.

Four years later the contract Penn got for being the "greatest LW champion in the world" still pays less than what he got in K-1. Nothing new here... Part of "going to the UFC to fight the best" includes "take a pay cut."
That was pretty much a one-time K1 contract,

Let's not got the facts misconstrued. It isn't "Japan" where people are making the big bucks. And BJ or anyone else couldn't get that deal right now.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:16 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
Shockingly the UFC is still around and Affliction isn't.

Anyone feel like paying Andre Arlovski $1 000 000 to fight Rothwell?

How bout paying Rothwell $250 000? Takers? ($1 250 000 for this one fight...)

How bout pay a washed-up has-been Lindland $375 000 to beat someone no one has ever heard of in match no one even remembers.

And hey while we are at it lets pay Tim Sylvia $800 000 to be subbed in under a minute. Money well spent and a great investment for the futu...

The UFC pays its fighters enough to keep them around and grow the business. That is what is important. That is all I care about. I don't care about making athletes millionaires. That will come as the sport grows and they prove they are worthy. Were the above worthy of the paychecks they got? Is that really what they were worth to Affliction?
Affliction were morons though, their 'business plan' was never going to work out. Their PPV numbers were reliant on Fedor Emelianenko, and that was never going to turn out well for them. Their first show got them 100,000 buys, that is literally nothing. The UFC headlined a PPV show with Rashad Evans taking on Thiago Silva, not a show you'd imagine would sell big numbers, but it still did 3 times what Affliction managed. Then Affliction's next show, which on paper looked a much better card, did less numbers, only managing 90,000 buys. To pay out $1.5million to Andrei Arlovski and then only get 90k buys is just hilarious. Affliction were leaking money from the beginning, and even with Trump's financial backing it was never going to last long. Barnett testing positive for roids days before the Fedor fight just happened to be the final nail in their coffin.

It's a shame they were so stupid with their money though really, Affliction could have been a genuine contender to the UFC, far more so than Strikeforce. They had strong financial backing, a PPV deal, and a seriously strong roster of fighters. Considering they only managed to do 2 shows signing the likes of Fedor Emelianenko, Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Ben Rothwell, Vitor Belfort, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Josh Barnett, Matt Lindland, Sokoudjou, Vladamir Matyushenko, Jay Hieron and then on their 3rd card they were set to have Paul Daley, Takanori Gomi, Gegard Mousasi, Jorge Santiago and Gilbert Yvel all fighting. That Trilogy card looked stacked, and it was actually a shame it never happened. I suppose the only thing that got that calibre of fighter to sign for them was the ridiculous money they were throwing at the guys, so it was realistically never going to work out anyway, I'm amazed Trump didn't notice that himself.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:19 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
Yes, actually. A good deal of jobs are incomparable more dangerous than MMA. Most pay around 30-50k per year.

Lumberjacking is an example of this,

Crab fishers make a bit more, but you get the idea.
Well, I wouldn't call these "average". I don't deny that there are jobs with higher risks and that some of them are even less paid, but your examples are known for being exceptional dangerous.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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When you consider how much the fighters are getting paid you have to consider how much it is compared to how much the UFC makes per show to determine fairness, not how much they make compared to the average joe.

If the UFC is making 50 million per show then any fighter getting paid 8k per fight, or even 20-30k for a mid tier guy on the main card, is embarassingly unfair. In all the major sports (NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA) the players collective bargaining agreement ensures that they get between 50-60% of the total money those leagues make.

That seems fair to me, they get about half since they are the actual players, everyone else involved splits the other half up. Since those leagues make absurd amounts of money, the players get multi million dollar salaries.

The question is how much does the UFC make? I'm pulling that 50 million per show out of my ass, I have no idea how much the UFC actually rakes in but for the fighters to expect roughly half is reasonable. I saw someone else suggest in another thread the UFC was paying out less than 10% of its revenue in salaries and if that was true that would be unreasonable to me.

I'd like to see some reliable sources on what the UFC is actually making before I decide if the fighters are well paid or not.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:20 AM   #27 (permalink)

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
Shockingly the UFC is still around and Affliction isn't.

Anyone feel like paying Andre Arlovski $1 000 000 to fight Rothwell?

How bout paying Rothwell $250 000? Takers? ($1 250 000 for this one fight...)

How bout pay a washed-up has-been Lindland $375 000 to beat someone no one has ever heard of in match no one even remembers.

And hey while we are at it lets pay Tim Sylvia $800 000 to be subbed in under a minute. Money well spent and a great investment for the futu...

The UFC pays its fighters enough to keep them around and grow the business. That is what is important. That is all I care about. I don't care about making athletes millionaires. That will come as the sport grows and they prove they are worthy. Were the above worthy of the paychecks they got? Is that really what they were worth to Affliction?
The contract numbers for Affliction are a bit skewed. First you need to consider that the fighters trunks were for the most part void of any sponsorship which was due to the fact that Affliction was also acting as the sponsor to there fighters. Secondly you need to consider there is money like PPV % and bonuses based on ticket sales etc that the UFC pays the top guys. Afflcitions problem is the UFC is a guaranteed commodity in that they could put a fight night card on PPV and it would do 250,000 buys because being "UFC" sells those tickets. Since Affliction has no built in buy rate nobody really knew what to expect but Affliction had to match the kind of money these fighters would get from the UFC. In order to do that Affliction guaranteed the money as part of the fight contract which means that is the figure that must be released to the athletic commission.
Tim Sylvia would have made the same kind of money to fight Fedor in the UFC but it likely would have been 300,000 to fight him, another 300,000 in under the table bonuses and then he could have gotten 400,000 in sponsorships (I am just making the numbers up).
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:36 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Another thing to consider is the odds of successfully becoming a UFC fighter.

The comparisons to the NFL or NHL are frankly, absurd. MMA has grown in leaps and bounds, but to make the NFL, you have to be better than literally millions of people who would also like to play professional football, and you are compensated accordingly.

MMA has nowhere near that number of people trying to be professional fighters. I don't know what the numbers are, but it is still way WAY easier to become a professional MMA fighter than to make the top league of the big four, NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA.

I'm not saying its easy mind you, just that it's easier to beat out tens of thousands of people for a spot than it is to beat out tens of millions of people for a spot. MMA is catching up fast, and in another 10 or 20 years there may not be that much difference, but right now it is definately a much smaller pool of talent.

Having said that, I agree about the relative payouts. The most relevant factor is a percentage of the revenue coming in, regardless of what that is. If the UFC paid out 1 million in salaries to 10 fighters on one card, that might seem like a lot, but if they took in 50 million in profit, the fighters are getting hosed. I don't know if the numbers are like that, but I think that the lower ranked fighters probably should be paid a bit more considering the profits the UFC is making.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:44 AM   #29 (permalink)
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No, it says that if you want to be paid top dollar, you have to be the best and not just mediocre. Sounds like a refreshing message to me.

No elite fighters are gettig $8,000-$10,000, just the mediocre. Also, Fight of the night or sub of the night bonuses in of themselves exceed what many people make annually with combined incomes. You want excellent pay, you have to be excellent. Not everyone in the UFC makes top dollar because all fighters are not created equal. Some are elite, some are great, some are good and some are mediocre and they are paid accordingly.

People aren't obligated to top pay, it's earned as it should be.

Also, its much, MUCH harder to get into the NFL then the UFC, there are some aspects of anatomy & physiology you are born with or not, no weight divisions in the NFL, which makes it much more exclusive.
This is a bs argument ... do you have to be an "elite" construction worker to make enough to feed your family? Do you have to be an elite janitor to get regular pay? You clearly don't have to be an elite commentator to make 100s of K, just ask Goldie.

Then why, as a guy that is risking life and limb that is already among the top 2% of his profession (to even make it to the UFC after slogging through amateur orgs and small pro orgs) have to be "more elite" to make minimum wage in this company as a fighter, counting your training and medical expenses? Most people will never be champs, does that mean they get shafted their whole lives no matter how hard they work?

Seriously, $8000 per fight with about 3 fights per year is $24,000 year, which is $11.50 per hour for a guy putting in full time (40 hrs/week), and that's before training and medical expenses. Even janitors and construction workers make more, and they don't have any expenses. And if you have any skills at all (plumbers, electricians, ironworkers etc.), you make more than four times as much.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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