Is UFC Varsity and all others Junior Varsity? No. - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
MMA Smacktalk MMA Smacktalk is for all the cheering, jeering, and smack-talking that you want. This is the stuff that isn't appropriate for the MMA Discussion forum. Rules are light, so if you don't have a sense of humor, then don't go here!

Reply

Old 06-18-2011, 05:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
Necks are for sheep
 
Breadfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 733
Breadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level now
Is UFC Varsity and all others Junior Varsity? No.

Just got into it with my brother for a quite long and heated argument. He basically says that UFC is by far the best company and has all of the best fighters, and that when you move from another org like Strikeforce you're moving up to learn to fight better.

My perspective is that other organizations are just exactly that, and just because the majority of money and marketing is in UFC doesn't mean every fighter is better. There are tons of fighters that indeed could be better currently than the UFC champs.


The argument went back and forth for ever, but I wanted to see if anyone else had any sort of opinion on this. Would you consider Strikeforce or Pride etc a minor league to the UFC's Major league?
__________________

Thanks to
D.P.
For the Sig!


Favorite Fighters:

Donatello
Leonardo
Raphael
Michelangelo
Breadfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 06-18-2011, 07:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
Toroian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 816
Toroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the roughToroian is a jewel in the rough
Oh a whole yes. Why? because UFC does have the MAJORITY of the best fighters in the world in each weight class. However their are many great fighters(That can compete at the top of the UFC) spread around the world in many smaller organisations.
__________________
"I tried to punch him, and he literally moved his head out of the way and looked at me like I was stupid for doing It"
- Forest Griffin

NPFFL: Alistair Overeem, Fedor Emelianenko, Shane Carwin, Chris Leben
Toroian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2011, 09:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
Necks are for sheep
 
Breadfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 733
Breadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level nowBreadfan is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toroian View Post
Oh a whole yes. Why? because UFC does have the MAJORITY of the best fighters in the world in each weight class. However their are many great fighters(That can compete at the top of the UFC) spread around the world in many smaller organisations.

I definitely get what you're saying, my whole point is though... UFC is a better business due to marketing etc., thus has more money to pay for the fighters that are otherwise fighting for their competitors. I don't feel like a fighter goes to UFC and then STARTS becoming a great fighter.
__________________

Thanks to
D.P.
For the Sig!


Favorite Fighters:

Donatello
Leonardo
Raphael
Michelangelo
Breadfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2011, 10:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
"I <3 Trolls"
 
TraMaI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,922
TraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings System
I totally agree with Toroian. The UFC has the highest average skill level in MMA. Strikeforce, Bellator and DREAM have some serious gems in guys like Alvarez, Askren, Aoki, Melendez, Overeem, Werdum and Fedor though. But they also have some seriously low level fighters. Have you SEEN the talent in SF's WW division? It's abysmal. There is not a single fighter in that weight division who would win a single fight in the UFC outside of Daley. Their middle weight division is really good, as is their heavy weight division. Both of them stack up pretty well against the UFC's. But all of their other divisions are very weak. WW, LHW and LW are all pretty weak outside of their champions and top 3-5 fighters.
TraMaI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2011, 12:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
Middleweight
 
KillerShark1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 2,806
KillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemKillerShark1985 Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by TraMaI View Post
I totally agree with Toroian. The UFC has the highest average skill level in MMA. Strikeforce, Bellator and DREAM have some serious gems in guys like Alvarez, Askren, Aoki, Melendez, Overeem, Werdum and Fedor though. But they also have some seriously low level fighters. Have you SEEN the talent in SF's WW division? It's abysmal. There is not a single fighter in that weight division who would win a single fight in the UFC outside of Daley. Their middle weight division is really good, as is their heavy weight division. Both of them stack up pretty well against the UFC's. But all of their other divisions are very weak. WW, LHW and LW are all pretty weak outside of their champions and top 3-5 fighters.
Have to disagree with that, sure no doubt the UFC WW division is by far stronger, more so now they have even got there hands on Diaz, but I think you would be fair more accurate to state that they would probably not touch the UFC top 10-15 in that division other than Daley, because there are a lot of equally lower tier fighters in the UFC division below there. And also I think Tyrone Woodley could also give the UFC top 10 a good run for there money.

Also I think you under estimate there LHW division which seriously if you was to take Jon Jones out of the equation I think would go toe to toe with the UFC LHW and win, in fact I think that 2 or 3 of the top contenders against Jones are in fact at SF, if the best the UFC can do it throw Quinton at him, I assure you SF could come up with 2 or 3 options that I would give a much more credible chance to, fcuk the fact Hendo is champ does not matter although I would give him a better chance than Quinton still, I would give King Mo, Roger Gracie and Feijao all a better chance than any UFC fighter against Jones, if Fedor was willing to make the effort and make 205 maybe him too.

I don't think the MW division is all that much to shout about tho, does not have great depth imo, though I will say one think, Jacare Souza is twice the BJJ sensation Damian Maia is and would hand his ass back to him in a pure grappling match, and he has better stand up which is hardly surprising when you consider he works with Anderson Silva in that aspect.

To Sum it up, SF has the best HW division hands down, its not a good run for the money, the UFC HW division is a joke they have 2 guys that would give any of the SF top 5 HW's a run and that's it, and this is SF's strongest division so its not close its a no contest, if Brock had gone to SF I guarantee you he would never of been champ not ever, I doubt he would of got any further than Bobby Lashey but if all else failed what the Reem would have done to him would not have even been funny.

At LHW I believe the UFC has the strongest single fighter in Jones, and a good mix up of fighters but the diviison is a little run dry in the sense there are to many fighters past there prime and not enough coming up as a result the division is on a slide, and I believe now they have reached such an all time low in what has been in history the greatest division of all time. Where as the SF division is on the rise has plenty of up and comers and is growing strong, and I believe the slide of the UFC and the rise of SF has now brought them to a point where its very even, in fact its debatable but I give SF the edge.

As for the rest of the divisions UFC wins hands down, aside from a couple of stars like Jacare, Melendez, Daley been the obvious exceptions, I would say Woodley also, I don't think the top guys in the UFC in these divisions would have much to worry about if the divisions where to merge.
__________________

KillerShark1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2011, 03:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
"I <3 Trolls"
 
TraMaI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,922
TraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings SystemTraMaI Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerShark1985 View Post
Have to disagree with that, sure no doubt the UFC WW division is by far stronger, more so now they have even got there hands on Diaz, but I think you would be fair more accurate to state that they would probably not touch the UFC top 10-15 in that division other than Daley, because there are a lot of equally lower tier fighters in the UFC division below there. And also I think Tyrone Woodley could also give the UFC top 10 a good run for there money.
That's what I meant to say. I'm sure they could beat the low level new guys and stuff, but no on relevant to anything. Sorry I worded it wrong, was a bit hung over this morning lol.

Quote:
Also I think you under estimate there LHW division which seriously if you was to take Jon Jones out of the equation I think would go toe to toe with the UFC LHW and win, in fact I think that 2 or 3 of the top contenders against Jones are in fact at SF, if the best the UFC can do it throw Quinton at him, I assure you SF could come up with 2 or 3 options that I would give a much more credible chance to, fcuk the fact Hendo is champ does not matter although I would give him a better chance than Quinton still, I would give King Mo, Roger Gracie and Feijao all a better chance than any UFC fighter against Jones, if Fedor was willing to make the effort and make 205 maybe him too.
Fedor at 205 is the only one out of any of those I give a chance to. Feijao has looked really overrated, Roger is still pretty green to MMA and King Mo is... I won't even touch that. Let's just say I think he's terribly overrated. And I think the reason that you think this way is because Jones makes the UFC LHW division looks terrible. He's that good. These guys (including Rampage) are some very high level guys. Griffin, Evans, Jones, Machida, Rampage, Shogun, Rich, Silva. I think they'd all run through the LHW division. I mean the best 2 fighters at LHW in strikeforce (Mousasi and Hendo) are both middleweights...

I don't think the MW division is all that much to shout about tho, does not have great depth imo, though I will say one think, Jacare Souza is twice the BJJ sensation Damian Maia is and would hand his ass back to him in a pure grappling match, and he has better stand up which is hardly surprising when you consider he works with Anderson Silva in that aspect.

False. Demian has actually beaten him multiple times in pure grappling matches.I do agree he has better stand up, obviously, and he's much more explosive. That being said, Demian's stand up has improved by miles. He showed very technical boxing against Munoz. Jacare is fast and explosive but he has a tendency to get wild. Not saying Jacare is bad, I really like the guy and would love for him to be in the UFC, I'm saying they're two different types of fighters and Jacare is NOT better than Demian on the ground.


Proof is in the pudding.
Quote:
To Sum it up, SF has the best HW division hands down, its not a good run for the money, the UFC HW division is a joke they have 2 guys that would give any of the SF top 5 HW's a run and that's it, and this is SF's strongest division so its not close its a no contest, if Brock had gone to SF I guarantee you he would never of been champ not ever, I doubt he would of got any further than Bobby Lashey but if all else failed what the Reem would have done to him would not have even been funny.
Who would SF's top 5 be? Werdum, Fedor, Reem, Bigfoot and... Rogers? Barnett? Karhintonov? Against Cain, Junior, Brock, Carwin and Mir? I'd say that's about 50/50 with Cain, Junior or Reem winning it all. Reem is a beast, yes, and I don't think Brock would have a hope of beating him. The rest of them? I'd pick him against everyone but bigfoot and even then I wouldn't give it to Silva easy. Fedor is WAY past his prime and he's shown he can no long handle huge fighters (or at least ones with skill). Cain and Junior would both stomp 4 out of 5 of them. Carwin and Mir I can see both beating Werdum and whoever is ranked #5, aside from maybe Karhintonov, and i still think they'd both take him down and win there. To say their top 5 would run through the UFC's top 5 is ridiculous to me. They have some skilled fighters and almost all of those match ups are something I would love to see, but they're no where near the skill level of just running through their top HWs.

Quote:
At LHW I believe the UFC has the strongest single fighter in Jones, and a good mix up of fighters but the diviison is a little run dry in the sense there are to many fighters past there prime and not enough coming up as a result the division is on a slide, and I believe now they have reached such an all time low in what has been in history the greatest division of all time. Where as the SF division is on the rise has plenty of up and comers and is growing strong, and I believe the slide of the UFC and the rise of SF has now brought them to a point where its very even, in fact its debatable but I give SF the edge.
I agree they're on a slide at LHW, but they're still as a whole better than SF's fighters.

Quote:
As for the rest of the divisions UFC wins hands down, aside from a couple of stars like Jacare, Melendez, Daley been the obvious exceptions, I would say Woodley also, I don't think the top guys in the UFC in these divisions would have much to worry about if the divisions where to merge.
I'm unsure of Woodley. They'r ebulding him up with consistently better fighters, but he hasn't fought anyone near top shelf yet. He also looked pretty bad in his last fight. He's got some growing to do but the kid definitely has potential. I don't think he's anything special as is, but he could be.
TraMaI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios