PHOTO OF THE DAY

SIGNIN 

 

Register Now

Not a member yet? Join today - its free!



MMAForum Articles Members can write breakdowns of fighters, events or just articles on MMA related topics.

Reply

Old 06-08-2009, 12:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
IronMan
True Grappler
 
IronMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 5,328
IronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level nowIronMan is on another level now
Cain Velasquez: The Open Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan @ MMAOpinion
It’s easy to talk about the potential of a fighter. It’s easy to talk about the things that a fighter could do if he brings in a new game, a new level of athleticism or a new level of intensity.

Undefeated Cain Velasquez (5-0 MMA, 3-0 UFC) will be credited for answering a lot of questions if he defeats Cheick Kongo at UFC 99. People will see it as an advancement into the upper echelon of the UFC heavyweight division. Kongo (19-4-1 MMA, 7-2 UFC) is an undisputed gatekeeper in the weightclass, and Velasquez, with superior wrestling ability and a viscious groundnpound is in a position to put the Frenchman out. He could, perhaps, become the first UFC opponent to finish Kongo (which would be a huge feat).

I’m not as convinced as the rest of the world that this matchup is a done deal, even with Kongo taking the bout on short notice. There have been additions to his ground game that may present a problem for Velasquez, and his still developing wrestling skill will make Cain work if he wants to get the fight on the ground. Of course, the way that Velasquez destroyed Jake O’Brien sent a message to anyone who thinks they can out wrestle him. That message more of a “Try Me” than anything else.
Click here for the rest.
__________________
IronMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 06-15-2009, 12:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
D.P.
Delicious Pudding
 
D.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 9,477
D.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level nowD.P. is on another level now
Well he didn't finish him, but it was pure domination on the ground by Cain.
__________________



D.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2009, 03:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
ctestes
MMA Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4
ctestes has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
Velasquez proved that he is a master of Ground and Pound in his dominating performance over Cheick Kongo. Was this proof that Velasquez is the next big thing, or did Kongo expose Velasquez' weaknesses? Was is just a demonstration that Velasquez can dominate a fighter with poor grappling skills? Lets think about Velasquez in comparison to some of the all-time great Ground and Pound masters:

Mark "The Hammer" Coleman
Matt Hughes
George St. Pierre
Randy Couture

Mark Coleman is the founder of Ground and Pound. When he entered the MMA scene there was nobody that could challenge his wrestling prowess and brute strength. Unfortunately, Coleman was not able to evolve as a fighter and take down defense, and as more decorated wrestlers joined the MMA world, Coleman's star faded fast. Coleman does not have knockout power or good submissions in his arsenal. This sounds much like the Cain Velasquez of today.

Matt Hughes was dominant in the welterweight division for years with his superior Ground and Pound techniques. Matt has also shown signs of developing a submissions game demonstrated in his victories over Frank Trigg, including a rear naked choke tapout while Trigg was on his feet. It looked like an old time Ric Flair sleeper hold. Hughes remains competitive; however, his submission ability is limited and his stand up game is non-existent. Again, this is similiar to the Cain Velasquez of today.

George St. Pierre demonstrates and awesome Ground and Pound game against even the most talented wrestlers like Josh Koschek. GSP is talented in all facets of MMA, and he is not limited by one overwhelming technique. GSP comes from a more rounded background than that of Velasquez, which makes him an unfair comparison to Velasquez.

Randy Couture started by capitalizing on his decorated Greco-Roman wrestling career. Randy also had boxing experience in the Army. When Randy appeared to become one dimensional with his wrestling prowess, he expanded his toolkit and added Jiu-Jitsu and other attacks to his arsenal. Randy provides the roadmap for Velasquez to advance from a great Ground and Pound Fighter to a great fighter. Which path will Velasquez follow? Couture? Coleman?

Honestly, Velasquez is a handful for any heavyweight matchup, even with only six fights under his belt. But, lets explore how he would match up with another inexperienced top flight heavyweight; Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar has an equal wrestling pedigree to Velasquez, but he is bigger and stronger. Velasquez would struggle to take Lesnar to the mat and it would seem to be an impossible task to keep Lesnar on the mat given Lesnar's size and strength. Lesnar has demonstrated his power in his hands with his title victory over Randy Couture and by rocking Frank Mir. With Velasquez' current skills, how could he beat Lesnar? In my opinion, he is not ready for Lesnar and he couldn't beat him.

Frank Mir has demonstrated how to beat Lesnar, and that is with a superior submissions game that takes advantage of Lesnar's aggressiveness. Perhaps a Cain Velasquez with a polished submissions game is the answer to Lesnar? This is following the path of MMA Great Randy Couture by constantly improving your skills in multiple aspects of the game and using this to create different game plans for different opponents. Velasquez should follow the Couture plan and he could become one of the all-time greats, rather than becoming one of the all-time great Ground and Pound practitioners whose star fades as they age and their opponents become stronger.
www.mmasizzle.com
__________________
ctestes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 02:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
Ranxerox
MMA Fanatic
 
Ranxerox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7
Ranxerox has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Don't think you can judge Cain's ground and pound skill accurately against someone without much off-the-back ground game like Kongo. I'm a big fan of Cain's though...one of the best long-distance uppercuts in the game, strong chin, great conditioning, and the patience/intelligence to wait for the right window to attack strong. Anyone know who's lined up to fight Cain next anyway?

Last edited by D.P. : 07-08-2009 at 12:52 AM. Reason: NO SPAM
Ranxerox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 01:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
Fieos
Bantamweight
 
Fieos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 850
Fieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud of
Cain did not prove he is a master of ground and pound at all. He proved his wrestling was vastly superior to Kongo's which is akin to bragging that a fighter's submission game is better than Houston Alexander's. In the 12+ minutes of that fight he had a dominant ground position on Kongo and could not knock him out, submit him, or even get TKO stoppage from a referee. In my mind Cain is the heavyweight equivalent of Clay Guida. Forever a contender; never the champion.

In a Cain/Kongo comparison I give the ground advantage to Cain and the pound advantage to Kongo. Kongo destroyed Al Turk and Hardonk with his ground and pound and he's a predominately stand up fighter.

I see Cain eventually dropping to 205.
Fieos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 02:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
Jesy Blue
Flyweight
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western Massachusetts, New England, United States of America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol System
Posts: 365
Jesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of lightJesy Blue is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieos View Post
I see Cain eventually dropping to 205.
really? he's like 235-240 now. at best he may make the gradual drop like Vera did over a year, but right now i think:
1) HW division needs another good fighter as there are so few
2) LHW is kind of saturated, he wouldn't get a title match for at least 2 years; he'd have a better chance for a title fight at HW.
__________________
.
.
.

Carley Simon, thanks for writing that song about me!
Jesy Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 02:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
Fieos
Bantamweight
 
Fieos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 850
Fieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud ofFieos has much to be proud of
Yeah, but he's not a lean 235-240. I think he could easily get to 220 and then do a cut to 205. He'd be about the size of Griffin and Vera. He'll do OK at either weight class but I think he has a better chance at 205 for title contention. I don't see him doing well against the heavyweight contenders outside of Kongo. Honestly the UFC Heavyweight division is becoming a 250+ club and the 206-249 guys are starting to struggle.
Fieos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 04:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
Ranxerox
MMA Fanatic
 
Ranxerox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7
Ranxerox has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Cain maybe not a title-contender...yet

Great analysis Fieos! I like your comparison to Clay Guida and agree, as it stands, he's unlikely to be a title holder...even at light heavyweight in my opinion. But on the flipside, fighters evolve, and with the right training camp/coaching, he could easily be a different fighter with better prospects.

Last edited by D.P. : 07-08-2009 at 12:52 AM. Reason: NO SPAM
Ranxerox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
Evil Ira
Sexy as F
 
Evil Ira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tyne and Wear, UK
Posts: 2,911
Evil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level nowEvil Ira is on another level now
Great article, as always, IronMan . I find Velasquez's Ground and Pound good, but has little Knock Out power in it. Hopefully he'll follow the path of Randy Couture, as he is only 26, and the world is his oyster. If he has the passion to learn separate arts such as jiu - jitsu, he will be able to become big one day. Unfortunately though, I don't see him getting past Carwin at UFC 104. But then again, that's only my personal opinion ...
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ira View Post
Top Five Ways to paper cut your balls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by name goes here View Post
4 trying to teach your willy to read
Evil Ira is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios