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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-06-2009, 09:58 PM
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Yeah I mean yeah he did do two illegal elbows but a warning should have been giving at least. Also the fight should be a NC or a win for Jones because that was defintely terrible reffing.


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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-06-2009, 11:17 PM
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[FONT="Times New Roman"]Dana doesn't have that kind of political clout when it comes to the commission. People forget how much diplomacy it took to get MMA sanctioned in Nevada (a state where the Fertitta's are taken very seriously).
I should have rephrased that, I am surprised the UFC as a whole is unable to remove a referee that is having a detrimental effect on their organisation. I am sure a reasonable case could be made against the guy, give some case examples and how it is endangering peoples lives, surely action would have to be taken. Obviously it wouldn't be as simple as mentioned above and it would be a long investigative process, but I would rather see Dana and co act on it, than to bitch about it on social networking sites.

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People forget how much diplomacy it took to get MMA sanctioned in Nevada (a state where the Fertitta's are taken very seriously).
If anything the removal of this clown would add a positive glow to the sport, showing that care is taken to use the best officials.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-06-2009, 11:21 PM
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I think he should have been DQ'd. The only reason i think that is because the illegal elbows are the ones that actullay finished the fight. If they didn't DQ him it would have sent the message that you can do illegal moves, as long as you finish the fight with them. If Hammill could have continued then they should have just taken a point. He missed with a few illegal elbows and you can here Mazzagati warning him then he connected with the two and thats when he stopped it.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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I should have rephrased that, I am surprised the UFC as a whole is unable to remove a referee that is having a detrimental effect on their organisation. I am sure a reasonable case could be made against the guy, give some case examples and how it is endangering peoples lives, surely action would have to be taken. Obviously it wouldn't be as simple as mentioned above and it would be a long investigative process, but I would rather see Dana and co act on it, than to bitch about it on social networking sites.
I knew what you meant, I just don't think Dana, or the promotion as a whole, has any power in this position.

They might use it properly in this case, but the autonomy that NSAC has is important, so long as it's not abused (as it was in the case of CSAC under the leadership of Armando Garcia.


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If anything the removal of this clown would add a positive glow to the sport, showing that care is taken to use the best officials.
I totally agree, I just think that NSAC needs to take action out of the understanding that the guy is incompetent and dangerous, and not because of organizational pressure.

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I think he should have been DQ'd. The only reason i think that is because the illegal elbows are the ones that actullay finished the fight. If they didn't DQ him it would have sent the message that you can do illegal moves, as long as you finish the fight with them. If Hammill could have continued then they should have just taken a point. He missed with a few illegal elbows and you can here Mazzagati warning him then he connected with the two and thats when he stopped it.
See, I've already explained why this point is invalid on a few separate questions, but since I haven't answered it in this thread, I'll lay it out.

A DQ is declared when the fight ends as the result of and illegal strike (not simply following an illegal strike).

Hamill was unable to continue because of an injury he sustained in his arm that kept him from defending himself. He said so in the post fight interview.

Additionally, Mazzagatti didn't give time to get a medical consult, or even ask for one, to see if the cut would be severe enough to end the fight. He ended the fight when Hamill said he could not continue, a decision in which the elbows were not a factor.

The fact is, Mazzagatti probably should have stopped the fight about thirty seconds earlier when Hamill failed to defend himself at all under strikes.

EDIT: And the notion that it "sends a message" is complete crap, though I've heard it from a few people now. Fighters are not going to start using the twelve-to-six elbow just because they think it can end a fight. Fighters know that the rule applies and that they'll be severely penalized for using it. They don't think "oh, I'm gonna bust this move out and the fight will be over instantly" because they know that they can't count on that. It's insane gameplanning to expect an illegal strike to end the fight. Fights are not predictable enough for that kind of logic to be at all justifiable.



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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 03:12 AM
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He can probably read lips, but it was still a clusterf*ck.
It's hard to read lips when your eyes are full of blood. That cut on Hamill's nose was nasty.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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It's hard to read lips when your eyes are full of blood. That cut on Hamill's nose was nasty.
He was also having some trouble getting up and talking at the end. I think he had a mild concussion. He really wasn't totally aware of himself.



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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 09:10 AM
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It's hard to read lips when your eyes are full of blood. That cut on Hamill's nose was nasty.
True. My older daughter, who sat and watched the fight despite not being much into MMA, wondered if he was bleeding out his eyes while he lay on the mat.


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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:16 AM
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I never liked this Ref on 70% of his calls or Late Calls, and im truly sick of Steve, its like some how each time there is some kind of crapy call he is always behind it... Always.... But forgetting about him, Jon Jones did a amazing job that night beating a UFC Veteran like that.... He beat him in every espect of the game, even got a full mount like it was butter, then layed on the beating that started this thread, But how does this "Lose" go in the eyes of Dana? and Joe Rogen? Like he won in disgusting fashion I dont see Dana giving Matt Hamill higher Calibur fights and Jones moving down the ladder like u would normaly see... I wonder if they will move Jones up but only a slightly harder fight then they would if he didnt get DQ'ed? i wonder how that works, or if its just no rule of thumb on it
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
See, I've already explained why this point is invalid on a few separate questions, but since I haven't answered it in this thread, I'll lay it out.

A DQ is declared when the fight ends as the result of and illegal strike (not simply following an illegal strike).

Hamill was unable to continue because of an injury he sustained in his arm that kept him from defending himself. He said so in the post fight interview.

Additionally, Mazzagatti didn't give time to get a medical consult, or even ask for one, to see if the cut would be severe enough to end the fight. He ended the fight when Hamill said he could not continue, a decision in which the elbows were not a factor.

The fact is, Mazzagatti probably should have stopped the fight about thirty seconds earlier when Hamill failed to defend himself at all under strikes.
I don't agree with that. Jones gnp was pretty good, but Hamill was getting his arms in there and stopping a lot of them, if not most from doing full damage. I think it was a rare moment where we actually saw Maz do right in NOT stopping it earlier. There were only a few strikes that got in there with full force. Including the last couple of illegal elbows that had Hamill pulling guard for no reason.

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He was also having some trouble getting up and talking at the end. I think he had a mild concussion. He really wasn't totally aware of himself.
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I think he was probably looking at two or three different Mazzagatti's right then, anyway. He was definitely out of it.
So he couldn't continue because of his shoulder?



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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 11:18 AM
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I think the DQ was a good call, He went back and used the new instant replay to see what happened. He saw the damage caused from the illegal elbows and ruled it a DQ. Now I do think that before he waved the fight off the doctor, or someone should've come in to get the blood out of his eyes, so he could at least see what Maz was saying to him.
if you watch it again his eyes are closed and full of blood, so there was no way he could've heard (obviously) or seen what he was saying.

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