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Old 07-26-2011, 01:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
Voiceless, what do you think of the following scenarios:

1) Standing in front of a knife guy, pushing yourself off of him (chest), take a big step (3 ft) and face opposite direction, running moderately and controlled. If he tries to run after you and you have created enough distance, you will simply elephant-stomp him in the stomach (small elephants are known to give sort of a backwards kick and it can be deadly). In other words, a straight backwards kick. Why this approach? Well, our sensei has developed this new method. He says "this way, the attacker can't get close enough to me. He can't grab me because my leg will be kicking him and he will cripple to the floor from the kick. He would have to get close enough to be able to grab me, but he can't, because my leg is protecting me with the backwards kick." This approach worked for one of our club members who got ran after by a drunk guy. He kicked him in the stomach with the backward kick and they had to carry the guy away back to the bar. Of course this works for a drunk, fighting-ignorant guy, but for a vicious trained maniac.. I doubt it. This is why our sensei and us are always open to opinions from the outside. Do you think this would be a good approach? My opinion is that there might be a problem with the guy cutting one of your leg arteries.. I don't know.
I'm not quite sure what kind of kick you mean, maybe something like this one:


In general my advice would be if you've reached "If he tries to run after you and you have created enough distance,": Keep on running. If you have distance, he can't harm you, so why close the distance again¿ I recommend rather to work on widening the distance, bring obstacles (cars, fences, trash cans, houses etc.) between you and the attacker.

Now that of course depends also from the situation. Other than in a competitive sportive fight in a self defensive situation the objectives between those involved differ. While in a sportive fight both opponents want to overcome the other guy an win the fight, in a self defensive situation the victims primary objective is to stay unharmed while the attacker(s) want(s) to harm the victim and stay unharmed himself. Surviving a life threatening situation is usually a bigger motivator than the prospect of harming someone (unless it's needed to survive yourself). So with somewhat equal athletic skills, the victim will mentally be able to run faster and longer than the attacker. If however you have the feeling that the attacker is faster and has better cardio and would not give up before you gas out, then you should do something before as long as you're still able.

That back kick is somewhat problematic, because if you miss he is in your back and you don't have your arms ready to defend yourself. And as you mentioned there is the possibility of him cutting your leg arteries. So, facing him rather try to kick him in the groin as you would try to drive your shin through his pelvic bone.

But again, that all depends on the situation.

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Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
2) You are standing in front of the knife attacker and just all of a sudden, you run backwards, but with fast great steps, still facing him. After those steps you run the hell away. Supposedly the attacker would be that dumb that he would be surprised for that second that you take steps back. He would be like "huh?" in his mind and that would supposedly be enough for you to get the hell away.
I would rather disadvise running backwards. You'd be slower than him running forwards (if he doesn't go "huh?") and you wouldn't see any obstacles you could stumble over.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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xeberus, I'm catholic. I don't kill people. Also, I'm not a murderer/criminal. I'm a good citizen of society. If you're defending you're not supposed to kill. Firearms are illegal in a particular part of Europe. Also, I would never buy one. For example, the whole reason behind karate is that farmers were not allowed to use weapons and thus had to defend themselves with their only weapons.. their hands. Their empty hands. Their hands without tools. Kara te. I don't have the heart or spirit to gouge someone in the eyes. I just think that's cruel.

Yes, I understand if the other person is trying to kill you, but that would be extremely rare. Generally, one should just watch out in life and not get in such trouble.

I prefer to stay away from psychopaths (people who kill or even think about it). Sorry to say that, but that's how it is. It actually makes me sick to read what you wrote. I don't know what kind of education you had or life, but it was probably not a good one. I'm glad I'm not crazy like some people out there. I think you maybe had some serious trauma's in life, otherwise you would not think this way (which is: abnormal).

You have a wife and child?! You should be ashamed of your mind and yourself.

I am not an angry person, luckily. I'm very peaceful.
Good thing there are not many maniacs out there with a knife (that is - those who actually mean to kill you).

Over and out.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
Don't get me wrong I'll give a guy a ride, hot meal and 20$ if asked
I hope you're a good cook as I understand that as an invitation.

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Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
[...]I don't have the heart or spirit to gouge someone in the eyes. I just think that's cruel.[...]
You should get used to the idea. I don't mean that you should aim to cripple or kill the attacker, but you should accept that it could happen to him. To be precise you need a certain mindset to be able to defend yourself. Without the mindset to do what is necessary all your training won't help you in a critical situation. You shouldn't restrict yourself in the measures to stay unharmed. Do what is necessary. If running away is possible - fine, do so. If buying the attacker a beer helps to calm him down - fine, do so. If he'd be intimidated when you told him that you'd kick his ass - then do so. But if those non-physical methods don't work you'll have to get physical to stay unharmed and if the attacker takes permanent damage, so be it. The measures and force needed to stop the attack depend on the situation. I'm not talking about revenge, so if you're sure that you definitely stopped his attack and he won't start again, then it's ok to go away and call the police.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I like that at the start, it's funny to me because almost all murder and violent crime in my country are commuted by Christians/Catholics. I am also not a criminal, and my record is clean.

I am a perfect example of why weapons are essential in a fight. I say that because I'm fit, very athletic and I've been in boxing/kickboxing or bjj for the past decade and I still carry a gun because against multiple attackers or a guy with a weapon it's a flip of the coin I lose a lot.

You talk about fighting as if it's cruel? Have you ever been in a fight? It's scary, it's brutal, violent, animalistic. It's life or death, do whatever it takes to come out a head, it's not a game, it's a "hey am I going to wake up tomorrow, am I going to be diminished for life etc". I'm sorry if it's me that had to tell you that's what fighting is, it's not a pretty thing.

Then you stay away from everyone? A police officer once told me those who know they will kill to survive, survive, those who wait til the moment die. By your definition all police, military forces and most people are psychopaths. The way you are talking about this is childish.

I will have you know I'm very academically accomplished, I have my MBA for a quality university and I've been published in a psychology journal for my work on identifying missing children who have aged.

The way I think is normal or pretty close to it, I'm not ashamed I would kill to protect myself or my family, maybe you should he that you wouldn't.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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xeberus, while not a reason to have a killer mindset, I understand somewhat more your defensive mindset - i.e. you come from a dangerous neighbourhood. I come from a neighbourhood where children smile and respect the rules and.. well basically it's happy town. About education I was referring to parental education.

There are a lot of knife attacks here too (in fact, 100.000 knifing cases in a single community - I don't understand that even).

I suppose you live in a country where it's allowed to carry firearms or you can even buy one. Where I live? Hah. Not even in the nearest 3000 miles. It's just plain forbidden and not sold/fabricated. Strongly against the local law.

I've been in a small fight but that wasn't a fight anyway because all the attacker did was lay on top of me and miss a hit next to my face. So yeah. No, I don't actually provoke fights so I'm happy I have never been in one. It also depends on the type of fight: "Hey! You stole my Magic cards!!!". Haha. Fights can be brutal if they contain psychos. However in general between normal people, the fight lasts at most 30 seconds and the other guy cools down quickly.

You would have to be really sick or disturbed to be brutal in a fight. It's mostly not life or death.. again, depends on the situation. Very rare over here, but I guess you live in a violent neighbourhood.

Police is not allowed to kill anyone. They shoot the leg to disable the attacker. They use pepper spray/gas. Over here the police politely asks the criminal if he would like to a/b or 'stop what he is doing'. They are never going to even touch the criminal unless he starts to run away or something - even then, they don't run after him. They get i their car and report to headquarters. That's how police job is done - not like crazy Americans..

Last edited by SelfDefense : 07-26-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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@voice

Well since my divorce my culinary skills have grown immensely.

@Self Defense

Well as I said my mindset is common and nothing to be ashamed of. I grew up in a wealthy home, gated community and a quality school. My parents are wealthy I am not. Well as long as we're talking about some arbitrary education that can't be measured I suppose I won't hold that against you.

Look, I've let you insult me over and over but there is no need to be hostile. Just because we have shared different experiences does not mean we cannot be civil or get along.

Is it that frightening that I'm the average guy? In America when a reasonable person would feel that their life was in mortal danger it becomes legal to kill. If I get into a fight with someone, I would stop when they were done. Likewise I've had someone yell out "stop stop" in a fight and that was it. Honorable fight is an honorable fight, when someone attacks me with a deadly weapon it's over and it's life or death.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Well, that is in America, but not in Europe.

As a Ju Jitsuka in the budo ground and a practicioner of self defense, honor doesn't exist for me. It's about just being able to defend. I don't have that big of an ego to have 'honor'. It's also not in the right context, i.e. that one of fighting. If you have to defend, you defend. The streets. You don't need honor. There is no medal.

If one can go out at reasonable hours and not later than midnight and one chooses to be peaceful, I think it should be possible to live a peaceful life.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Well I've spent a lot of time in europe, street fighting is prevalent there as well.

How I used the word "honor" could be interchanged with "mercy", a person without this "honor" is more vicious than myself. Not hurting someone you don't need to hurt requires no medal, it's something a decent person just does.

I live a relatively peaceful life.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Completly agree with Xeb on this. I had a great childhood with awesome parents. I'm a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and I will defend myself at any means. I carry a gun because I follow the law and I know there are people out there who do not. Now if a guy came up to me and punched me in the mouth I wont pull my pistol and turn his head into a pink mist. I will show him the proper way to punch someone in the mouth. Just because you (Selfdefense)have this vision of the place you live in has children laughing and playing in the streets all 50s style does not mean its like that everywhere.

You insult Xeb for speaking his mind. You judged him. Thats pretty jacked up. Your 1 "fight" the guy layed on top of you. The last non MMA fight I was in a guy smashed a beer bottle on my head and I put him in the hospital. Ive been jumped by 7 guys. You name it it's pretty much happened to me except being stabbed or shot. Ive had people come at me with a knife though. You do what you do to survive. So before you say someone "makes you sick" maybe you should do a self check. Or end up in a sewer somewhere.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
xeberus, while not a reason to have a killer mindset, I understand somewhat more your defensive mindset - i.e. you come from a dangerous neighbourhood. I come from a neighbourhood where children smile and respect the rules and.. well basically it's happy town. About education I was referring to parental education.

There are a lot of knife attacks here too (in fact, 100.000 knifing cases in a single community - I don't understand that even).

I suppose you live in a country where it's allowed to carry firearms or you can even buy one. Where I live? Hah. Not even in the nearest 3000 miles. It's just plain forbidden and not sold/fabricated. Strongly against the local law.

I've been in a small fight but that wasn't a fight anyway because all the attacker did was lay on top of me and miss a hit next to my face. So yeah. No, I don't actually provoke fights so I'm happy I have never been in one. It also depends on the type of fight: "Hey! You stole my Magic cards!!!". Haha. Fights can be brutal if they contain psychos. However in general between normal people, the fight lasts at most 30 seconds and the other guy cools down quickly.

You would have to be really sick or disturbed to be brutal in a fight. It's mostly not life or death.. again, depends on the situation. Very rare over here, but I guess you live in a violent neighbourhood.

Police is not allowed to kill anyone. They shoot the leg to disable the attacker. They use pepper spray/gas. Over here the police politely asks the criminal if he would like to a/b or 'stop what he is doing'. They are never going to even touch the criminal unless he starts to run away or something - even then, they don't run after him. They get i their car and report to headquarters. That's how police job is done - not like crazy Americans..
There is a lot of people in Norway who USED to think the same way.
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