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Old 10-23-2009, 09:38 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
Uhg.. I read most of this thread.. I got tired of hearing the same things as I read it backwards..

About kicks.
At my TKD school we have been taught to twist our hips, though I heard someone say most TKD schools don't teach that. I assumed they did.. At the TKD place I attend, I train under a fifth dan. He is governed under a seventh dan I believe. I was taught when you choose to kick "through" a target your leg stays on the target as you're trying to go through. Lets say the target is a persons head. This causes the power transfered from your leg to go into the head but as your leg stays connected to the head some of the energy from your kick will bounce back into your leg thus causing a less powerful kick. So he taught us when you make that strong contact you snap your leg back so the power will have nowhere to escape. (this was explained to me when I was young, around 10 years old so I may have misinterpreted some things) I have no clue where this logic comes from or if it can/has been proven. This is simply something I was taught. As for using your hips when you kick, it's the same principle as when punching. The energy you gather moves fromm the ground up the legs and as your hips snap the energy forces itself out through the chosen contact point(the foot). I have heard some people complain that TKD kicks are useless. This simply is not true, the kick have been developed and are effective. The fact is not everyone does a said kick the same way therefore the kick isn't preformed as it was made to. I feel like an idiot explain these things since it feels like everyone says I'm wrong.

About History.
I also heard someone say something about how since TKD is one of the newest martial arts it isn't something that derives from martial arts that use "brutality". Early Tae Kwon Do was developed from the ancient art of Hwa Rang do which is an extremely "brutal" martial art. Most serious fights being only to the death it focuses on punches, kicks, locks, and fatal techniques. I don't know much more about this so I won't go to deeply into it.


I will save more talk about this when I hear more and/or get responses. xD
I respect each and every martial art equally. In my eyes all martial arts are equal in their own respects, the only difference is the people who practice them.

By the way, I am a first degree, second level in TKD with 5-7years of experience(not saying thats alot).
I loved seeing the hwa rang do shout out. It was practiced by the youth movement Hwa Rang, which I assume was essentially very young soldiers, and there was an article about it in Black Belt which I have had for years.

As you may also know there is a palgwe hyung called hwa rang.
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:26 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Fieos, I apologize for my lack of knowledge to this matter.
My current instructor moved to Canada to help his wife get American citizenship so eventually he will come back. x.x

I will try to get ahold of him and ask for more reasoning behind rechambering. As of now I am helping teach at his school with his mother (fourth degree) and his sister (fifth degree). I will question them about this aswell though I doubt they will give me knowledge to the extent that I would be satisfied.

Regarding the method of "pulling" the kick back, that makes it seem as if you literally mean to stop the power like when using extreme control to fight lower ranks(this is not what I mean). When you fight them you don't slow your kicks down but stop the complete power. When fighting and you kick, you throw all your kicks with 100% effort. When you hit a target you don't "stop" the kick but in a means of getting ready for another you would snap it back. As you said you do sometimes when throwing multiple kicks. Many things I might say contradict themselves, this is simply because sometimes when you're taught something you may not know the exact way to do it.

Say like when you are doing calculus, you are being taught the methods by a teacher but when you hear another teacher say this method here can be better you may not know which is right.

As of now I am confused but I suppose that is one of the lessons of youth.

I do sincerely apologize if I sound arrogant or biast, I don't mean to be. Everything that is told to me I do and will take into account. I respect everyones way of doing things and I am aware just because you're taught something does not mean it is right, if this comes to be the case I will simply ask how to do it right. :]


Swpthleg, I'm glad someone else aknowledges who they are as it seems in todays TKD "scene" most places I have asked around told me they had no clue what I was talking about so it must be a lie which is very disappointing to me. I have a little information given to me about them and the palgwe hyung (pattern) corresponding with each other.

Hwa-Rang Tul (29 movements)
Hwa Rang is named after the Hwa Rang youth group which originated in the Silla Dynasty in the early 7th century. The 29 movements refer to the 29th infantry Division, where Taekwondo developed into maturity.



This is a passage we are to memorize before we can achieve our first dan along with a passage for each of our palgwe hyung corresponding to the history behind it.

I highly respect the information BOTH of you provide for this community aswell as every other contributing member. I feel as if I learn so much everyday I read through the masses of topics, threads, opinions, methods, and facts.


My spelling may be terrible which I am not proud of but please bare with me.

Last edited by Mookie : 10-24-2009 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:20 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Hopefully the spelling cops will stay away from this thread.

Currently I take karate, but I took TKD for 3 1/2 years and am an advanced green belt. Our instructor was also big on memorization. I think this is just a coincidence and the emphasis on memorization varies from school to school.

I switched to the school where I am now for a variety of reasons, none of them personal. I loved my teacher, classmates and the art of TKD.

I loved the historical chapter at the beginning of my TKD book, and I should google more of this stuff, b/c it was fascinating.

Good post BTW.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:21 PM   #224 (permalink)
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But ur limited in tdk rules in terms of fighting. But in street fighting tdk is deadly. TO sum it all up i would take tdk over thai that's just my opinion but u can never say one discipline is better than the other cause each person is unique.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in - I've gone against black belts in TKD before, and was forced (yes forced) to do some TKD while I was on a tour in Korea. TKD IMHO looked flashy, but was not practical. I've seen black belts get crushed by students of other arts and in street fights.

Take a look at the first couple of UFC's - hell UFC 1 & 2 even. Back while it was one art vs another. TKD didn't do too well.

Ken Shamrock vs Patrick Smith
Shamrock wins by submission due to a heel hook at 1:51.
Patrick Smith vs Ray Wizard
Smith wins by submission with a guillotine choke in 58 seconds
Point here being, Smith didn't win his matches with TKD

I've got to say though, if you seriously spend a lot of time with any art, you deserve props and respect. I enjoy watching TKD demonstrations, but I've got to say that I'm definitely not impressed by the practicality side - especially if the practitioner spends most of their time working towards competitions for TKD. Muay Thai on the other hand - regardless of what you do or don't practice you've got to admit its brutal, and effective. Even more so on the street since half the time, if you cut someone with an elbow they want to give up at just the sight of their own blood.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Smith_(fighter)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcPr4...rom=PL&index=2
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:58 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Smith was arrested in 1999 for sexual assault on a child, and subsequently after his conviction was registered as a sex offender. He was later arrested again for failing to re-register in 2008, a felony in Colorado.
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:21 PM   #226 (permalink)
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Eh, kinda funny to note, but besides the point lol. I used him more to illustrate that he started off TKD, back when UFC was more along the lines of boxing vs karate or tkd, and stuff like that.
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:35 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Smith was arrested in 1999 for sexual assault on a child, and subsequently after his conviction was registered as a sex offender. He was later arrested again for failing to re-register in 2008, a felony in Colorado.
Clearly, Tae Kwon Do leads to sex offense.

As for the on-topic part, a lot of people claimed a lot of styles in the early days of the UFC. Almost as often, these people had no business claiming the style, much less being in the Octagon, so it's not really fair to judge an art by what some guy filled out on his fighter info form. Even today, few, if any, traditional martial artists show up in the cage/ring. There are more than a few who have transitioned from TMAs to MMA and are able to bring what works with them, though.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:22 PM   #228 (permalink)
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Clearly, Tae Kwon Do leads to sex offense.
So thats what's wrong with people these days... and here I thought it was just in the water.

You're definitely right about that. A lot of people did claim a lot of things, so I guess with out any real sort of evidence, its kind of hard to really say what kind of experience he had without knowing him. But that is kind of what I was getting at, very few traditional arts are practical now days. Original point of the convo being that muay thai has seemed a lot more practical, both inside and outside of a ring.

It makes me think about starting up a true "self-defense" school. I'll call it TKD2-The Return.

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Old 10-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Serkan Yilmaz isnt the greatest kickboxer in the world, but his base is TKD and he uses it pretty effectivly when he fights. Lots of fun to watch.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:51 AM   #230 (permalink)
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I've always had the same question about TKD. Everytime I talk to someone that does TKD they tell me they do it then immediately say "but my school is not like the ones you hear about...it's hardcore and they only teach stuff that works in the real world". Now with that being said...I have heard this from literally every single person that I have ever come across that does TKD, so if all the TKD schools out there are "real fight schools" then where are all the McDojo's?

On a side note when I was doing Muay-Thai for a few years a long time ago my instructor passed away and I had to find another place to train. At the time there were no other MT schools around so I started going to TKD and Karate schools just for some sparring. They would always get mad because I refused to learn forms and test, but I did get in some matches with lots of TKD guys. I have to say that I didn't find one school where I'm from that was for real. They were riddled with guys who thought TKD was the most effective striking art on the face of the earth (thanks to their instructors), then comes along a descent MT kickboxer who's tearing them apart, which coupled with the fact I refused to test and learn forms got me kicked out of several TKD schools.

From my experience in most TKD schools I went too they only did point sparring and the ones that did "free" sparring only did light contact to the body and only punched to the head (light contact). I for the life of me could not figure out how to get someone to fight me light contact on the street so I wrote it off as pretty useless.

I don't have anything against TKD. As a matter of fact I have several good friends who have their own TKD schools and are pretty high ranking black belts. They are down to earth guys for the most part, but some of them think they are Jean-Claude Van Damme. One TKD instructor that I'm friends with (5th black) has a son that's 1st black under him. I was joking around with him one day saying "hey man, when we gonna spar?" and his dad looked at him and said "son, he did MT kickboxing for a long time...unless you want to be walking around on crutches from getting kicked in the legs I wouldn't suggest it".

I'm not trying to start a fight about any of this. I'm simply speaking from my experience. I think there are some salvagable things in TKD, but I feel for the most part if you are gonna talk about street effectiveness there is no comparisson between MT and TKD. TKD is a point sport for the most part while MT is a fight sport.

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