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post #231 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 10:04 AM
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Muay Thai is for men and women who desire to be badasses.

TKD is for little girls who desire to kick and look pretty while doing it.

There is always the exceptional TKD school which is decent and the shittiest school claiming to teach MT who blows, but generally MT hands down as the superior fighting style.



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post #232 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 07:06 PM
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It's bad to want to look pretty while you're kicking?

My school was definitely atypical.


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post #233 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 09:42 AM
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Pretty doesn't always win fights.

If I have a choice between being pretty and being effective I'm choosing effective.

Like I said though, there are some things that can be taken from TKD and used effectively. You just have to sort through it and remove all the jumping and spinning stuff, teach them how to keep their hands up, and no throw their hands wide open every time they throw a strike.
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post #234 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BlacklistShaun View Post
Pretty doesn't always win fights.
Actually, I've made a point of telling the guys I train with the inverse:

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Ugly wins fights.
I mean, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is effective, but it's not flashy. It's minimalism, simplicity and effectiveness. Those three things are enough.

Even in boxing, some of the most effective fighters don't have flashy styles. Calzaghe was incredibly effective, not that flashy. Tyson was a minimalist, but his power was so devastating that even using the basic bob-and-weave-to-bolo was enough to destroy his opponents.

Muay thai has some stuff that's not combat effective. TKD has some stuff that's not combat effective. The difference is, the core of muay thai is full contact, and the basics of muay thai work in full contact fights. The basics of TKD don't.



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post #235 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 04:34 PM
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Jab, cross, staight, hook, uppercut, elbows, knees, roundhouse, sidekick, front kick... Pretty sure those are TKD basics and they seem to be pretty common in MMA.

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu may be minimal, simple, and effective but that's not enough if the fight doesn't go to the ground. GJJ is not the MMA solution any more than any other style of martial art.

I'm tired of people not understanding there is a functional side to TKD and an artistic side. TKD is a martial art and any martial art requires adjustments to be an effictive fighting method.
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post #236 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 05:00 PM
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Jab, cross, staight, hook, uppercut, elbows, knees, roundhouse, sidekick, front kick... Pretty sure those are TKD basics and they seem to be pretty common in MMA.

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu may be minimal, simple, and effective but that's not enough if the fight doesn't go to the ground. GJJ is not the MMA solution any more than any other style of martial art.

I'm tired of people not understanding there is a functional side to TKD and an artistic side. TKD is a martial art and any martial art requires adjustments to be an effictive fighting method.
I am not sure about your experience with TKD, but I went to a lot of different schools in my area and my experience was always the same.

I spent a lot of time doing Muay-Thai before I started going to TKD gyms so I was a pretty descent boxer. Just about every class I went too I would use good technique on jabs, crosses, uppercuts, hooks, etc...I would always get corrected and told "this is how we do it in TKD". It was always less effecient and flashier ways of doing it IMO.

Another thing I would get corrected on quite often was I love kicking the legs. Every class I went too I was told immediately "no leg kicks". How are you going to learn how to defend or use leg kicks when you don't use them??

Several of the schools I went too (not all of them) taught to roundhouse kick with the foot and not the shin. Some had adapted using the shin; although I'm not sure which is more traditional. To me kicking with the foot is stupid...what happens when you break your foot? Then you are in the middle of a fight and can't stand.

Most of the schools as well did not allow strikes to the face. Same as leg kicks...how are you going to learn how to defend or strike to the face if you can't do it training? You can't.

From what I saw of the stances, most of them were pretty useless. To me the stances were set up more for point sparring and not street fighting. Some big leg stance isn't going to win fights on the street or against kickboxers. If you don't believe that just take a look at Machida and how he got his leg kicked to death last week.

Kata was the all time worse thing I saw. I did Karate (got a black belt in Shorin-Ryu Karate) and I never agreed with kata. Some people say it's useful for something...what I don't know. This isn't the Karate Kid, nobody is gonna stand there in awe while you do some stupid form...you are gonna start doing it and they are gonna kick the crap out of you.

My biggest gripe with Karate and TKD is the belt test and the fact that they give belts out for money. When I got my black belt I paid about $1500 to get it. I have seen schools that charge more than that. When I got my belts in BJJ I paid nothing, I went into class one day and they handed me a belt and told me "you earned this".
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post #237 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 08:59 PM
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TKD doesn't really start until the black belt level and then it becomes what you make of it. When I was kickboxing I used TKD as my base and it worked very well. I've cleaned it up and it is still my base for MMA striking. Obviously I'm the exception and not the rule but the reality is that the art is fine, it is the business of TKD that gives so many people these 'buy-a-belt' experiences.
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post #238 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 10:17 PM
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I have always hated belt tests and still do. It doesn't measure how good you are in that discipline as much as it should, it's more about whether you're a good test-taker.

I wish teachers made it known that they would give out the belt at random when they felt you'd earned it, that way everyone would work harder all the time.


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post #239 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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TKD doesn't really start until the black belt level and then it becomes what you make of it. When I was kickboxing I used TKD as my base and it worked very well. I've cleaned it up and it is still my base for MMA striking. Obviously I'm the exception and not the rule but the reality is that the art is fine, it is the business of TKD that gives so many people these 'buy-a-belt' experiences.
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean by "TKD doesn't really start until the black belt level". Are you saying that you don't do forms and all that junk after black belt? Do all the techniques suddenly change after you get your black belt? Are there some kind of new fighting tricks they teach you once you get your black belt?

The way I'm taking it you are saying that once you get your black belt you can pretty much take what you learned and change it to what you want. If that's the case and you take things FROM TKD and make them "your own" and make them work for you, then you are not actually doing that art anymore, you are changing it to something else that's not TKD. One of the biggest fallings in styles like Karate and TKD is that it's pretty well written in stone...this is the style, bottom line. That's why I love BJJ so much...if someone comes up with a new move or something that works it's incorporated and next thing you know just about every school across the country is doing it, but you don't see that diversity in TKD and Karate....it is what it is.
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post #240 of 275 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlacklistShaun View Post
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean by "TKD doesn't really start until the black belt level". Are you saying that you don't do forms and all that junk after black belt? Do all the techniques suddenly change after you get your black belt? Are there some kind of new fighting tricks they teach you once you get your black belt?

The way I'm taking it you are saying that once you get your black belt you can pretty much take what you learned and change it to what you want. If that's the case and you take things FROM TKD and make them "your own" and make them work for you, then you are not actually doing that art anymore, you are changing it to something else that's not TKD. One of the biggest fallings in styles like Karate and TKD is that it's pretty well written in stone...this is the style, bottom line. That's why I love BJJ so much...if someone comes up with a new move or something that works it's incorporated and next thing you know just about every school across the country is doing it, but you don't see that diversity in TKD and Karate....it is what it is.
TKD has and continues to evolve. It is an ever-changing art, especially when it comes to footwork. Are there a lot of crappy schools? Sure. Are some focused on kids' grades and behavior and not on true combat? Sure. Are some of the rules and techniques of sport TKD terrible for real combat? Sure. That being said, there are also many TKD schools that teach tradition, sport, and combat and their differences very well and those schools seem to have no problem producing TKD practitioners whose techniques hold up just fine in the combat department. I've personally witnessed others' success and experienced it myself.

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