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Old 07-12-2009, 01:08 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DragonCombo View Post
I haven't studied Kung Fu yet, but I hear it can be really effective when you use it to it's fullest.

For Muay Thai, I've seen the real damage it can do. So it's really hard to say because they're both really good styles. The thing I notice about Muay Thai nowadays is that it's simple yet extremely effective.

For now, I'll have to go with Muay Thai.

Yes, the simple arts are always the best. Muay thai is very effective for that reason. Muay thai also is great cos of its power. You learn a few basic moves and practice them over and over on a bag and pads, building up tremendous power.

Learning muay thai also gives you the upper hand in mentality too since that is probably the most important thing in a fighter. Muay thai guys are trained to destroy the opponent. No nonsense.

So once you learn it, your fighitng spirit is enhanced greatly

Other arts like kung fu are great too and if you train hard in it, you can defend yourself pretty well. Overall, learning any art will make you stronger and fitter and those alone will give you the advantage.

Although kung fu is great, a lot of it focus on forms and spirituality so make sure you are aware of whats effective in fights and whats not.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:11 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Yes, the simple arts are always the best. Muay thai is very effective for that reason. Muay thai also is great cos of its power. You learn a few basic moves and practice them over and over on a bag and pads, building up tremendous power.

Learning muay thai also gives you the upper hand in mentality too since that is probably the most important thing in a fighter. Muay thai guys are trained to destroy the opponent. No nonsense.

So once you learn it, your fighitng spirit is enhanced greatly

Other arts like kung fu are great too and if you train hard in it, you can defend yourself pretty well. Overall, learning any art will make you stronger and fitter and those alone will give you the advantage.

Although kung fu is great, a lot of it focus on forms and spirituality so make sure you are aware of whats effective in fights and whats not.
I think martial arts in their use also depend on the person in control of them. I'm not sure, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:09 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I feel the need to inform you on the history and actual nature of Kung-Fu.
Kung-Fu is not a system of martial arts, but rather a Chinese term used to describe skill (ie a good cook would have good 'kung-fu'). But, I will not argue western terminology. Kung-Fu was not taught to any monks by Bodhidarma, but was rather a collection of unique fighting techniques developed by different people of different walks of life throughout several years. These people - be they bandits, farmers, what have you - conglomerated the techniques they found to be effective at defending their lives, and called it Wushu, meaning Martial Arts. Eventually, several different TYPES of Wushu began to branch out from the original STYLE. Thus you have Northern and Southern Shaolin, Hung Gar, Mantis, Bagua, Xing Yi, etc. Wushu became more and more effective and useful in warfare when combat often came down to hand-to-hand scenarios. These styles defended the country for several years against foreign invasion and occupation, and was extremely effective at quickly dispatching an opponent. And the CMA (Chinese Martial Arts) remained this way for several centuries, but with one difference: new techniques for different situations always arose so that those who practiced the art could effectively be able to adapt quickly in different combat scenarios.
It wasn't until the Chinese Cultural Revolution that Wushu was dealt its most devastating defeat, which was not by any foreign combatant, but rather by its own nation's government. During the CCR which lasted from 1969-1976, the practice of martial arts in China was prohibited. Several traditional temples were destroyed, and several instructional, lineage, and historical scrolls and texts were destroyed. Only a few students and instructors were able to hide their documents, thus preserving the original art. But the biggest betrayal was the Chinese government's police force's use of traditional Wushu against the temples and schools. Over these years, the traditional art was all but whiped out. Eventually, the government established what is now known as "sport Wushu", a showy style of the original with no real combative applications. This is the style that YOU know of: the movie style containing unrealistic flying kicks, swinging wind-mill type punches, etc, etc.
However, the government, feeling sympathetic to those who tried so hard to remain loyal to both their traditions and their country eventually allowed the lineage (traditional) styles of Wushu (the styles meant for self-defense and actual combat) back into the public. Now these styles are practiced in Police academys, and most notably, the Chinese Armed Forces. Whereas Sport Wushu is limited to exhibitions, movies, and schools teaching the EXHIBITION art.
You will not find a school teaching the traditional styles unless the instructors were taught by fifth generation Sifus. Any other instructor that claims otherwise, is a fraud, or is merely teaching Sport Wushu.
In addition, Traditional Wushu's style emply circular blocks (which leaves openings in one's defense), quick footwork, grappling, joint locks, and vital strikes to vunerable points to the body. Practioners of the traditional styles do, in fact, train to withstand impacts, blunt force, and they employ exercises to strengthen soft tissue. The traditional styles also use every part of their bodies. From finger-tips, shoulders, hips, knees, shins, heels, back of the wrist, palm of the hand, etc. etc. Northern Shaolin practioners are very proficient with kicks, and often employ several exercises meant to increase muscle mass in the legs. Hung Gar is used for strong stances by lowering the center of gravity to avoid being brought down, and most CMA use blocks that can immediately be translated into attacks.

So, with that said, I hope it clears a few things up. I believe in a fight, it comes down to experience, not style. For if one style was superior to all the rest, then there would be no such thing as MMA. I can say this because I practice in BJJ, Traditional Northern Shaolin and San Soo, Kickboxing, and Isshin Ryu, and have fought with several fighters proficient in each.

Now, if anyone has any questions or would like me to, I will gladly post videos of my class (taught by Seventh Generation Sifu, Larry Bostic who was instructed by Sixth Generation Edward T. Shepard, who was taught by Fifth Generation Sifu Fei Hwon Pei) and several other instructors versed in various arts.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:48 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Thank you to the informed posters at the end. To all those who say Kung Fu fighters cannot take blows. Goto youtube and you will find videos of 12 year old Gong Fu student monks doing 2 FINGER PUSH UPS. And another one they show them holding their bodies up right when their entire weight is rested on a cloth strap on their neck and they do so without hanging themselves. How many Muay Thai fighters can hang themselves by their necks without suffocating? How many of them at age 12 can do that and do 2 finger push ups? And my favorite shows them slowly pushing a spear into a students neck right above the clavicle and he's able to bend the spear without the tip stabbing through his neck.

Gong fu fighters are not all showy and spiritual. Yes alot of branches and styles of Gong Fu are but to say there's a "single" Gong Fu is like saying theirs only one style of MMA. So you cant generalize a collection of different systems of martial arts that spans several THOUSAND years.

And to say Muay Thai is more realistic and more likely to win in a street fight, well then what do you say to Kimbo Slice? In all his comments he says hes undisputed in street fighting and he makes a clear distinction between MMA and street fighting. So does that make Kimbo's style of street fighting more realistic than MMA Muay Thai or Thai style Muay Thai? You can make generalizations blindly like that.

And I'm not generalizing in any way when I say Gong Fu is much more diverse and complex in styles and techniques than Muay Thai. So comparing the two is like apples and oranges. And historically speaking Gong Fu master's and or their disciples often did fight other schools and styles to prove their superiority. So Gong Fu has a long tradition of practicality besides it's spiritual aspect.

So when one compares Gong Fu and Muay Thai, how about let's compare Krav Maga and Muay Thai? Nothing illegal in Krav Maga and anything goes. So does that make Krav Maga more realistic or more of a street fighting technique than Muay Thai?
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:12 PM   #75 (permalink)
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mmm

I'd say that the muay-tai expert probably won because of their ring experience.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:43 AM   #76 (permalink)
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For fighting MT is way better. Not saying its a better martial art, but as for defending yourself hands down only an idiot would say kung fu is as effective as MT.

Of course it depends on the person, but assuming two equally capable persons learning each art the person in MT has massive advantages against the Kung Fu student in a real fight.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:07 PM   #77 (permalink)
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One of the engineers that works with me did Kung Fu for around a decade (maybe longer) as I did Muay Thai for the better part of a decade. We've had this discussion many, many times...in the end it's almost as bad as arguing about religion.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:10 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Alot of the posts on this thread are amusing due to sheer ignorance of the meaning of the terms being used. Specifically the word "Kung Fu".

I don't think alot of you realize what "Kung Fu" is. "Kung Fu" or "Gung/Gong Fu" directly translated into English would roughly mean "Hard Work" or "Work Hard" (and other variants) depending on the context and use.

When the term "Kung Fu" is used within China it's reference could be vast and doesn't even have to apply to any martial arts what-so-ever. As an example: I had a friend that was in China recently tell me that he saw signs posted for some hiking trails in the woods one day. The degree of difficulty between the paths were differentiated using the phrase "Kung Fu" in their descriptions (As in: "...This trail will require more "Kung Fu" than the other...").

So to say that MT, or BJJ, or Judo, or Karate or "MMA" is any better or worse than "Kung Fu", what you really are referring to, after a fact, is the degree of "Hard Work" that particular practitioner puts into their training!

Put another way: IT TRULY COMES DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL, THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THEIR INSTRUCTOR(S), AND THE DEGREE OF "HARD WORK" THEY PUT INTO THEIR TRAINING.

As long as the curriculum any given student is following is practical and rigorous enough, and as long as the student themselves train HARD, and their teacher or school continually pushes them to the next level to be able to effectively execute their movements in real-world combat situations, you are going to get a superb fighter no matter WHAT the lineage or "style".

With that being said, you could consider, after a fact, THAT ALL MARTIAL ARTS ARE "KUNG FU":

They all take a tremendous amount of HARD WORK to make effective for any given individual; no matter what the style.

Peace.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:00 AM   #79 (permalink)
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They lost because muay thai is better. kung fu is to spiritual and unrealistic.
You do know that in MT fights in Thailand, fighters come out in headdresses and dance around the ring shaking some type of maraka looking things before fighting right?

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For fighting MT is way better. Not saying its a better martial art, but as for defending yourself hands down only an idiot would say kung fu is as effective as MT.

Of course it depends on the person, but assuming two equally capable persons learning each art the person in MT has massive advantages against the Kung Fu student in a real fight.
I would have to disagree. My regular sparring partner does Northern Shaolin, and the estimate is that about 60-70% of what he's taught can't be used in the cage because they are techniques designed to strike at the vital point on the body.

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
If you just said that Kung Fu is unrealistic, you need to do your homework, doubleleg. Kazushi "the Gracie Killer" Sakuraba is a wing chun expert, which is, coincidentally, a form of kung fu.

Judge the fighter, not the system. If any one system was better, then all of it's fighters would be too, but that's not the case. The fact of the matter is that the five kung fu experts were not really that good and the muay thai experts were experienced street fighters.

It's a good story, but it's not a basis for saying that Muay Thai is a superior art.
Few people seem to know this. Or know that there is more to Kung Fu than Northern Shaolin, which in and of itself is an umbrella art for dozens of various derivations of Shaolin depending on the lineage of the art and its instructor.

My personal belief is a solid Kung Fu practitioner who's crosstrained has as much of a shot at MMA glory as anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
Its pretty simple.

Most kung fu schools do not train at the level modern day MMA and Muay Thai train. Its the reason why I left my Kung Fu school.

I love doing Wing Chun, but I spent the last year watching my school water it down. We used to get our asses kicked in there, it was brutal. Now people complain every time you give them a tap on the face to let them know they got hit. Any because my sifu wants to keep business up, he favors "playing kung fu" over actually do it.

Seriously, how do you expect these guys to hang with muay thai guys? When I think Muay Thai practitioners, I think of some of the most fit athletes. When I think of you average kung fu guy, I think of some out of shape yuppie.

So I would agree that most Muay Thai guys will best the majority of Kung Fu guys. I have only met five people who really do kung fu, even these "Masters" are only "playing" kung fu.
Well obviously you went to a kung fu McDojo. Sorry, they all kind of suck, didn't know there were Kung Fu versions though. I would hate it if that happened to my school. I think a solid Kung Fu practitioner could hang with an equally educated MT practitioner. Its not the arts, its the artists, regardless of how you percieve an art.

As for the OP. This discussion has been done to death four-hundred-billion-trillion times. Its not the art its the artist. That phrase has become so cliche!
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:06 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Man, you guys are hilarious. It's really silly to compare any one fighting style to another. When it comes down to it, it's the person using this discipline and how well they can adapt it to a certain situation. I've trained off and on in different martial arts over the last few years and while I know I would choose Muay Thai, I still wouldn't screw with a guy who had equal training in Kung Fu. It's almost disrespectful to both disciplines to say that either one is better. At the end of the day fellas, it's not the wrench, it's the hand turning it.
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