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-   -   What are the differences between Muay Thai and Kickboxing? (http://www.mmaforum.com/muay-thai-kickboxing/30461-what-differences-between-muay-thai-kickboxing.html)

Ferdelance 01-26-2008 09:53 PM

What are the differences between Muay Thai and Kickboxing?
 
Yeah,I know:to you devotees out there, that might sound like a really stupid question, so please let me explain myself.
The owner of the country and western bar Horseface Charlie's decided to add a little class to his place by bringing in a projection TV and a huge,movie theater size screen in the back(Yeah, I know:the idea of adding class to Horseface Charlie's has people in stitches laughing,but anyway...)He's done whatever is necessary to have some UFC and MMA and other events shown on the screen.
Cut to the chase:There's this waitress who works there, her name is Arlene, has the prettiest hazel eyes.Somebody said to her, "Arlene, that's not Muay Thai;that's kickboxing" in reference to what was on the screen at that time.
I was too busy checking out Arlene to notice who was fighting who,but what gets me now that I think about it is:
When Arlene asked,quite sincerely,"What is the difference?"
YOu know something,I don't think that anybody gave her a satisfactory reply.
Help me out on this one, people?
Like, I know what I want to say,but I don't know how to say it.
You know?
Thanx everybody,
Ferdelance

Zemelya 01-28-2008 01:02 PM

Quote:

Kickboxing is often confused with Muay Thai, also known as Thai Boxing. The two sports are similar, however, in Thai Boxing, kicks below the belt are allowed, as are strikes with knees and elbows. Also, Thai Boxing matches are fought with no shin guards (only leg wraps), unlike kickboxing, where leg protectors are used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickboxing

Plus MT is an ancient art whereas kickboxing is quite new

ToeZup 01-28-2008 01:05 PM

Well Zemelya pretty much just sumed it up right there. +rep
"kicks below the belt are allowed, as are strikes with knees and elbows.".

Uchaaa 01-28-2008 03:52 PM

So all the techniques are the same? The only difference are the rules in competition?

plazzman 01-28-2008 04:30 PM

Well not technically, the stance is somewhat different to accomidate for the different rules. For example there is less weight on the front legs, and the hands a bit higher.

There is also, as stated alot of emphasis on Knees and elbows which are almost primary weapons in a MT fight. There is also alot of clinching, front kicks and an incredible amount of leg kicks.

MT fighters tend to use alot of kicks as Kickboxers use more hands, but that is just a generalization.

Also, from what I have seen, Kickboxers have a more straight HK as MT fighters have a more snapping, shin HK.

Onganju 01-29-2008 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferdelance (Post 450785)
Yeah,I know:to you devotees out there, that might sound like a really stupid question, so please let me explain myself.
The owner of the country and western bar Horseface Charlie's decided to add a little class to his place by bringing in a projection TV and a huge,movie theater size screen in the back(Yeah, I know:the idea of adding class to Horseface Charlie's has people in stitches laughing,but anyway...)He's done whatever is necessary to have some UFC and MMA and other events shown on the screen.
Cut to the chase:There's this waitress who works there, her name is Arlene, has the prettiest hazel eyes.Somebody said to her, "Arlene, that's not Muay Thai;that's kickboxing" in reference to what was on the screen at that time.
I was too busy checking out Arlene to notice who was fighting who,but what gets me now that I think about it is:
When Arlene asked,quite sincerely,"What is the difference?"
YOu know something,I don't think that anybody gave her a satisfactory reply.
Help me out on this one, people?
Like, I know what I want to say,but I don't know how to say it.
You know?
Thanx everybody,
Ferdelance

I actually answered this question a while back in this thread here: Kickboxing in MMA. Since I'm too lazy to retype all that stuff, let me just give you the meat and potatoes:

Quote:

I think "kickboxing" as a whole is kind of a generic term for strikers who use more than just the 2-point offense. But there are a few reasons why it (and western boxing) are showing up more than most other traditional striking arts. I'll offer my views considering Muay Thai and Boxing in general.

Generally speaking, when you're training in either MT or Boxing, you're going to be training with practical/live application in mind. Whereas a lot of Traditional Martial Arts may still hold on to 1-step or 2-step sparring in order to engrain form and execution under application, they are rather limited in an actual combat situation where things are chaotic and will most likely progress past the initial set of techniques (even when those techniques are successful). When training in boxing or MT, a large part of the training is implemented and sharpened during sparring when you have a live and resisting partner. Instead of the flow of training being a "Start/Stop/Reset" process, the sparring will be "Start...do not stop until this ends" continuing process that teaches one how to adjust, pace themselves, feint and/or setup your opponent. Further, both arts do well in teaching footwork and distancing, which is way more maleable (or applicable) on your feet than it would be on the ground.

Another point of view is this: As Mark Hatmaker would note (find his book "Savage Strikes") 100% of all fights start on your feet. 90% of all fights go to the ground. 90% of the time, the fighter that can take the fight to the ground will win the fight. Since all fights start on your feet, why not be equipped with the tools to do damage on your feet? Further, why not be equipped to defend against such standing attacks? It just makes sense. All MMA practitioners should be able to fight in all circumstances.

Further, the skilled striker always has a chance as the act of closing the distance for a shoot/takedown offers the opportunity to damage the person shooting when they are most vunerable. In this case, a knee to the head while shooting in can always be discouraging to any grappler or end a fight. You can see that here when James Irving KOs Terry Martin with a flying knee as Martin goes for the takedown.

But this can be seen in stand up contests too, where great punches can end a fight. I think where kickboxing has a larger application than just boxing is that leg kicks have proven to be a serious weapon in the MMA world.

In the current stage of evolution that MMA is in, one must be able to fight standing and on the ground to be competitive. Most will be better at one thing than the other, but you have to be well versed in both. Randy Couture made "Dirty Boxing" a hallmark of his fight game as well as his wrestling. Genki Sudo has K-1 level striking to go with his phenomenal ground game. Bas Rutten was a phenomenal striker coming into Pancrase, and after he developed his ground game he became even more dangerous. As much as I love the ground game, effective striking can be just as lethal.
I then break down the most glaring differences in the 3 most prevalent "Kickboxing" styles of Western Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and San Shou/Sanda with this:

Quote:

Generally speaking, Muay Thai is set apart from other Kick Boxing disciplines from by utilizing the full 8-point striking system (punches, kicks, knees and elbows), and emphasizing fighting in a clinch. Most western styles of Kick Boxing only allow a 4-point striking system (punches and kicks), and use the clinch only as a way to tie up the opponent in hopes for a break and reset in the action. Not only is the Muay Thai competitor needing to address the added weapons of elbows and knees, but they must be competent in the clinch as the fight will not be stopped once the opponents enter the clinch unless there is a period of inactivity.

Currently there are 3 predominant styles of "Kick Boxing" amongst active competitors and this is how they differ:

"Western" Style Kick Boxing - This is actually a modern form of full-contact Karate matches
  • Utilizes only the 4-point striking system (punches and kicks)
  • No throws or takedowns are allowed
  • A Clinch causes a reset in the fighters position
Muay Thai - Traditional Kick Boxing as taught by practitioners in Thailand
  • Utilizes the full 8-point striking system (punches, kicks, elbows and knees)
  • Only "Sweep" style throws and unbalancing pushes are allowed (like kicking an opponent's supporting leg while they are kicking, catching a kick and throwing it aside to unbalance the opponent, etc.)
  • A Clinch situation continues with the fighters using suitable attacks and will only reset the fight if a period of inactivity occurs
San Shou - A modern system based off of full-contact Chinese Boxing
  • Utilizes a 6-point striking system (no elbows)
  • Full throws and takedowns are allowed
  • A Clinch situation continues with the fighters using suitable attacks and throws, and will only reset the fight if a period of inactivity occurs

For those who are wondering, K-1 uses a hybrid of western and Muay Thai techniques. It utilizes a 6-point striking system, no throws are allowed, and only allows a limited clinch situation (no neck clinches, and positions are quickly reset regardless of fighter activity).
I think that should summarize everything quite nicely...

Now I just gotta' finish up how to strike while retreating correctly for you. :thumbsup:

Onganju 01-29-2008 04:13 AM

I must make an amendment to the above post. In the full heyday of full-contact Karate and American "Kickboxing" of the 70's Judo style throws were allowed. They had to be done off of a sweep, or right as a clinch is initiated. This clip here is proof. Benny "The Jet" Urquidez absolutely flattens his opponent with a hane-goshi (curtousey of one "Judo" Gene LeBell whom Benny had trained under). The fight is ruled a no contest due to the fact that it was held under MT rules, and not Full Contact Karate rules.

Go figure...:dunno:

xeberus 01-30-2008 01:25 PM

Well im a kickboxer. I use the 4 point striking system, kick/punches etc. In muay thai which I have never trained in, I believe you can use sweeps, clinch and take downs. As well as knees and elbows. I think the stances are almost the same (as of what ive seen) only maybe they hold their hands up higher sometimes and they put alot more weight on their back foot not as much forward as in kickboxing.

hope i was helpful.

thai_fighter 02-03-2008 04:27 PM

Onganju is 110%correct. Good finds man. Plus you got all the facts right.

TheSpartan 02-13-2008 02:11 PM

Muay Thai is better thats all that is different =P


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