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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 01:06 AM
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I'm a little scared to say that I agree with Xeberus to some degree. The fact is, is that if you're feeling serious pain, then you're doing more damage than your body is going to be able to heal. If pain automatically equals gain, then every martial artist would be breaking their limbs as often as they can so that they heal back oh so much stronger. But it doesn't work like that. But along those lines, I also agree with Squirrelfighter - there needs to be a certain degree of actual pain. I think, honestly, it's a case of semantics. Maybe what one person considers "discomfort" to someone else is "mild pain", or vice versa.

Although it's kind of a nitpick argument, the fact of the matter is that minor damage does equal growth. That's the way bones are strengthened, or as you technical folk say, "trebuculi is developed"(?). If that particular bone isn't damaged, your body doesn't recognize the fact that it needs to be reinforced. I actually read recently (you're going to laugh at this) in a 'zombie apocalypse' discussion that one of the reasons a zombie apoc' wouldn't last, is because zombies don't feel pain, and because they don't feel pain their body will never recognize damage and therefore will never regenerate. Anyway, my point is, is that if you don't take some kind of damage (even just mild damage) your body doesn't realize it and reinforce it.

To the original poster however, I suggest NOT kicking a tree, even with guards on. To one of the above posters, sorry, no - your bones generally aren't hardned by the fact that something is immobile, they're moreso hardened by the fact that something is hard. Look, I come from a "traditional" background, and I at least think that we're considered to have some of the most crazy conditioning ideas. But I still recognize that hitting a part of my body on something that is hard AND HAS NO GIVE is loony and dangerous. Shaolin monks, to harden their fists and palms, hit their hands on bags of various material, building up from mung beans to steel shot or rocks. BUT, Shaolin monks (and those of us who follow some of their training methods) recognize the fact that hitting something hard and immobile can be unforgiving, and that's why we still hit a bag of whatever material we hit, that way the material has room to move and shift. I have a wooden post in my backyard that I pound my forearms on to toughen them, but I have this wooden post placed in such a way so that it gives at least a little bit because I don't want to break my gosh darn arm.

Think of shin hardening like a plank of wood that can regenerate. If you smash that plank of wood against a brick wall, it's going to splinter and break in half all at once, which will take far longer for it to regenerate. But imagine, that if you did small damage over time to that plank of wood, and over time, that plank of wood healed that damage.

Anyway, really, op, I hope you just kick a bag often. That's all you really need. A boxer need not condition his hands, because just the punching of a bag will over time toughen his hands and knuckles. Or relate to a real world physical labor job; someone who is forced to continually switch from a crouching or kneeling position to a standing position need not work to strengthen his legs, because after having done the job enough, his legs will be strengthened. I use to work this janitor job where I was continually carrying these 60-80lb trash cans out to the dumpster one by one, but not once did I feel the need to lift weights to strengthen myself for that job, because just the act of doing the job, and doing the work, eventually took care of the problem.

Ehhh. Hope I made some kind of sense.

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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 12:39 AM
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North you did a good job of summarizing what is needed to do the necessary for gaining tougher-shins.

I have implemented a new and rather painful method which I don't know how effective it really is.

I have a diamond-grip single hand adjustable dumbbell that I will roll the grip over my shins.

Would this do any good or is it needless pain?

Throughout life there are bumps along the way some may be painful...others not...who gives a damn in the end you'll still die
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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
My theory on this subject is that induing the most trauma possible, with the most effective recovery time, is the best option. I've found Option 2, followed by 2-3 days were needed in the beginning for the Edemas to decrease in size and for the bruises to heal sufficiently enough for me to continue conditioning. The more trauma you can indue the more quickly the nerves will die and the body will adapt.
Caution! That kind of approach can backfire very badly. Trauma on the periosteum can lead to chronic periostitis which would make the shin even more sensitive to pain. I've known people who couldn't train for months because the slightest contact induced severe pain due to the priostitis.

One also does not want to deaden the nerves. It's a very bad feeling if an area of the body gets numb, and that's what will happen if the nerves "die". With dead nerves there is also the danger that one won't be aware anymore of damage the body takes at that area and doesn't treat it correctly (that's one reason why people with leprosy often get crippled extremities, the nerves die due to the desease and they don't feel any damage to the body).

Last thing to mention: Kicking an immovable hard object is also a very bad idea. The physical energy of the kick has to go somewhere. If it cannot be kept as kinetic energy due to an impulse to another object that starts to move (heavy bag) it will be transformed to deformation energy, usually at the weakest point which is the knee. In short: the knee get's damaged. And that's a joint that does not easily heal. So kicking a tree or something like that will on the long run leave a great probability of ending up as a cripple.

So what to doż Kicking the heavy bag and checking the trainingspartner's kicks in sparring is fine (although I advocate deflecting kicks the Kyokushin way over checking them like in Muay Thai). The ability of taking pain is in first place a thing of mind. It will take some time, but after a year of good training one should be able to deal with most of the pain that may happen in a fight. Every attempt to take a short cut will only ruin the body.
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jcal View Post
You cant make your shinbone stronger you can just make the muscles around it better , work your calves, jump rope, jump alot of rope
Actually yes you can make your shin bones stronger. As you injure your bones, material from places that are not stressed out as frequently are broken down and this material is used where its needed such as the place where you keep whacking your shins.
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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 02:07 AM
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yes, i appreciate with the answer,kicking to a banana tree trunk...it will not harm you also.
other solutions like smashing any hard piece to your shins is never a right thing to do,as it is a short term solution may also result in bad consequences...
thanks all :-)
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post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 09:50 PM
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i use a leather belt tied into a knot (with a flat side of about 2 inches) so it's kinda like a hammer but obviously softer and it bounces back, use it when i'm at home where i don't have a banana bag.
I only started out so can't really say how effective it is but it feels pretty good...well...actually it doesn't feel good at all ;P But it doesn't feel like it's wrong ;P
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post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:44 AM
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Bone conditioning isn't focused mostly on deadening the nerve, that's only a perk. It's focused on hardening the bone overall. When you get into a match and do a few kicks and snap your shin in half, that means it wasn't proper bone conditioning. You should use a heavy bag and try 50-100 roundhouses/round kicks on it with each leg(Distribute the kicks on different parts of your shin, and on your insteps.) Do this for 4-6 years, then move to something harder, like banana trees, or some soft wood. Be sure to have a good calcium rich diet, but DO NOT go over 2000 milligrams of calcium a day. This will give you little progression in strengthening your bones(if any at all.) That can also result in a kidney stone. The more you progress, your nerves will deaden, but don't target the nerves only(tapping your shins. I'm glad you don't already)Work on hardening them and the loss of feeling will come too.

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post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:46 AM
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Deadening the nerves isn't a good thing unless you harden the bones with it. It's like taking the batteries from a fire alarm. It won't beep, but it'll let your house burn without alerting you. Same thing with your shins. They will break and you won't know it's cracking or fractured until it's too late.

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post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 03:29 PM
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Kick Hard Pads

I've trained Muay Thai in Thailand and I heard they kick banana trees and roll sticks on their shins, but really I just saw them kicking really hard pads. This training everyday will strengthen your muscles and everything around them.
Tough shins and strong calves are vital for Muay Thai, one bad 'clank' of shins can put you out for a week or so.
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post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eternal8pcurr View Post
I've trained Muay Thai in Thailand and I heard they kick banana trees and roll sticks on their shins, but really I just saw them kicking really hard pads. This training everyday will strengthen your muscles and everything around them.
Tough shins and strong calves are vital for Muay Thai, one bad 'clank' of shins can put you out for a week or so.
Yeah guess pads are the "economically beneficial" way of doing it...cheaper than having to plant new trees all the time (not to mention faster) ;P And for the rolling stuff over your shin's...i think "kicking stuff" is more effective since it not only toughens your shins but also trains your kicking power/accuracy/technique/speed...2 birds + 1 stone = dinner

Kicking car tires (the outer mantle) works quite nice aswell...just watch out that the tread pattern isn't to deep or the tire to hard.

Last edited by Miigi; 07-11-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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