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Have the ufc p4p rankings changed after last night?

5K views 102 replies 38 participants last post by  js1316 
#1 ·
I personally would put Penn in at number two. Since moving down to l/w he has finished every fighter he has fought and really made them look very average. Last night he showed how good he really is. I realise he lost to gsp however imo he did win the first fight and im certain if gsp moved up 185 Silva would do the same thing to him.

My rankings

Silva
Penn
Gsp
 
#61 ·
ok so the general consensus is that penn isnt the best P4p fighter (even though id disagree)...the question remains what would penn need to do to get that spot?
 
#63 ·
He will never be! The reason is people consider p4p also with weight. The only thing where BJ wasn't that gifted is his body. If he was born as a natural 205 lbs he would be number 1 but he isn't, he is a small guy thats why people always consider Silva or Fedor ahead of him.
 
#64 ·
sooooo by your logic to get the p4p ranking bj penn needs to move up a weight and fight bigger guys? Thats not really how the criteria for p4p works
 
#66 ·
And I don't disagree my friend, but we both know that if GSP is to ever be considered P4P King, he'd have to move up and try his hand at MW before eventually squaring off with and defeating Anderson Silva. I'm not saying that either scenario is strictly in keeping with the criteria, but for all intents and purposes, they are what people would both want and need to see.

Even Dana, Joe, and other fighters have billed GSP vs. Silva as the P4P Showdown. Naturally, fans follow suit with that belief.
 
#85 · (Edited)
I now that this is a big accomplishment for BJ as well but Machida just started his MMA career, where BJ already fought like 13 times already as a proffesional twice as much as Lyoto. And BJ could easily be a normal WW as well so we two weight classes disadvantage. But like i said earlier people will always come up the weight difference in p4p status, that's why you can never really put them on the right numbers.

And BJ fought Lyoto at 191 like i said not at 155! So 191 is already MW wich makes it only 1 weight class and Machida was a samll HW at that time with only 220 lbs. In European weight this is only 13kg guys, this isn't really much. But ok i know that BJ probably wasn't very confident or in perfect condition at 191 like he would at be on 170 or smaller. But of course if you put the weight advantage into the p4p status BJ will probably be ahead of Lyoto.

And i doupt that BJ will make it to a dicision if the would fight again today
 
#86 ·
I now that this is a big accomplishment for BJ as well but Machida just started his MMA career, where BJ already fought like 13 times already as a proffesional twice as much as Lyoto. And BJ could easily be a normal WW as well so we two weight classes disadvantage. But like i said earlier people will always come up the weight difference in p4p status, that's why you can never really put them on the right numbers.

And BJ fought Lyoto at 191 like i said not at 155! So 191 is already MW wich makes it only 1 weight class and Machida was a samll HW at that time with only 220 lbs. In European weight this is only 13kg guys, this isn't really much. But ok i know that BJ probably wasn't very confident or in perfect condition at 191 like he would at be on 170 or smaller. But of course if you put the weight advantage into the p4p status BJ will probably be ahead of Lyoto.
BJ gets tired and gasses at 170, that's when training hard for a guy like GSP. At 190 BJ is nothing but fat, which is why he can't move up in weight, he's too small, he will gass very fast and he doesn't have the strength that guys of that size have. BJ was nothing but fat in that fight. Faber could make 185 or even 205 if he wanted, but he will have to put on a lot of pure fat, which not only slows you down, but it makes you gas quickly, and he won't have any sort of strength advantage whatsoever.

Also, Machida took on BJ on his 6th fight, not his 3rd, so he was a bit experienced himself.
 
#87 ·
That's right like i said the weight disadvantage will us never allow a true p4p number from 1 until 5. We will never figure it out really because of that!

Yes he fought BJ at his 6 professional fight, i said he fought Franklin at his thrid not BJ :) But BJ already had like 13 fights wich makes it a huge difference as well. If we consider all these fact's togheter i would say that this matchup was actually pretty even from the fairness point of view.

In my opinion BJ Penn would be the greatest fighter of all time if he would have been gifted with a normal 220 body. But unfortunatly he is small.
 
#88 ·
Randy had over 20 fights when he fought Brock, and Brock only had 3 fights under his belt. Heath had 42 fights when he fought Brock, and Brock only had 2 fights.

Size makes a HUGE impact on fights, and when a natural 155 fighter has to put on 30 pounds of fat to fight a guy who is bigger, stronger, more experienced than Brock was when he beat Heath and Randy, as well as a great fighter in general, it gave Machida a huge advantage over BJ, and BJ still decisioned him.

Whether or not pound for pound is debatable, it's a fact that BJ had many disavantages going into that fight with Machida, and he still decisioned him.
 
#90 ·
Right :)

It's very tough to answer all these questions i hope we will someday ;) BJ definitely deserves the respect he gets from the user on this board, but the only thing i was trying to bring out is that the people shouln't forget Lyoto just like that^^

But anyway it was nice to argue with you Michael :) i need some sleep now take care!
 
#93 ·
I have to say no too. GSP has defended his belt more against much tougher opponents plus he wrecked Penn on their fight pretty well. It really takes something big like Hardy KOing GSP for Penn to pass him at this point.
 
#94 ·
These p4p threads are funny, its all subjective and I will tell you that whoever invented it was not a heavyweight. If Mir fought BJ he would destroy him, hes bigger, so what thats his advantage that means he would kick his @ss so then BJ can say but I'm bretter p4p..who cares??? Does football or baseball talk about the best homerun hitter or best receiver p4p? Does an offensive lineman ask a safety how much he weighs before he plows him? I don't get all this p4p hoopla..who cares...now if you wanna debate the merits of Jessica Alba over Scarlet Johannson argue away please...now I will leave my first and last p4p thread, g'day gentleman.
 
#95 ·
It's pretty simple really. Those sports don't have p4p rankings because weight has nothing to do with their sport. However they do have best overall pitchers, best overall running backs, etc.

The p4p concept exists to imagine who would be the best fighter in the world if weight didn't matter. And yes, it's mostly subjective.
 
#96 ·
BJ penn is smaller than GSP, smaller than Silva.

You have to say if BJ was 6'2 and walked around at 218, would be beat Anderson SIlva? The answer is, probably. I think he would take him down and beat him on the mat. ANd if they striked, BJ would be able to trade with Silva cuz of his chin and his ability to slip punches. ANd if he got in trouble he would simply outwrestle SIlva and outgrapple him.

GSP has beaten BJ twice for 2 reasons, size and stregnth. If BJ was natuallry 20 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller. They would be dead even.

IMO GSP and BJ are the 2 best p4p
 
#99 ·
Here is why I would rank Penn as the best P4P fighter... at least above GSP and Silva...

Going into fights, both Silva and GSP has a perceived weakness that can be exploited (I understand that just because people may believe it may be a weakness doesn't mean it is, but in P4P discussions, perception is reality). For example, or GSP, we always discuss how there is a strong possibility GSP will get KO'd. That his striking isn't great enough for him to stand and trade with good strikers, and if he does not take fights to the ground he will lose.

Similarly, although Silva is a BJJ black belt, we always talk about how strong wrestlers or talented grapplers could take Silva down and possibly dominate him, TKO him or submit him (you can say he fought hendo and Hendo could not do that, but others could fire back that Silva was mounted by Lutter).

The point is, BJ does not seem to have that. In fact, the only reason we think BJ has a possibility of losing is if he doesn't train for fights. Every fight BJ goes into we assume he is going to dominate, because he has no weakness that can be exploited by his opponents. Crisp boxing, strong chin, amazing TDDs, and arguably the best BJJ in the game. When you look at BJ's fights and his opponents, pwople always say "he is really dangerous for BJ. But when you go through all the facets of fighting you see BJ is better than them at everything.

To me, that is what makes BJ the best P4P fighter.
 
#101 ·
On speaking purely in the UFC, I certainly think that the P4P rankings certainly have been shaken up a bit, indicative of this thread. They currently have three champions at the top of their divisions and then everyone else in those divisions, Penn, GSP and Silva. I'm leaving Machida out of the conversation for now because although I don't think it was as controversial as many believe, I still had Rua winning their fight 48-47. That being said, I agree that GSP is a beast I'm not sure if he would have success against some of the top MW's. AS has already shown that he can move up and dominate. How would he fair against Rashad, Rampage, Rua, Machida is obviously up for debate, but going on facts, he would do just fine. BJ Penn has been a WW champion, beating Hughes and although he lost the other three times outside of his weight class, he has consistently shown that no one is in his world at LW. And against arguably one of the most aggressive punchers in UFC, he got hit a total of 8 times. I think that Silva is similar in that regard but I don't think GSP is.

P4P= 1. AS, 1a. Penn and 2. GSP
 
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