I would say GSP has used his wrestling the best so far.
Brock comes in a close second, but with his size advantage it makes his wrestling scary. Without that size advantage he wouldnt be nearly as good a wrestler. Sure he has great technique but we have only seen 5 fights from him so I think GSP takes it.
gsp is not the best pure wrestler in the sport...henderson, sonnon, coutore, brock, and lindland are ahead of him. i guess thats just my opinion though.
gsp puts everything together well, he's a great mma wrestler.
2008 U.S. Senior National Championships: 1st Place
2008 Golden Grand Prix International: 2nd Place
2007 U.S. Senior National Championships: 1st Place
2007 Golden Grand Prix International Open: 1st Place
2005 U.S. Senior National Championships: 1st Place
2005 U.S. World Team Trials: 1st Place
2005 World Wrestling Championships: 7th Place
2003 NCAA Division I National Championships: 3rd Place
2003 NCAA Division I Big 12 Champion
2002 NCAA Division II National Championships: 1st Place
2001 NCAA Division II National Championships: 2nd Place
GSP, no question. However, mad love to SUR1109 for throwing out my boy Randy
He did hold his own, wrestling-wise, with an elite level wrestler who outweighed him by 40+ lbs
You guys are arguing who has the best wrestling credentials. I guess if that is what you think defines the best wrestling, and don't take into account how they use it in MMA, then sure, GSP can't win.
However, I think the question implies that the wrestling has to be judged in the context of MMA. Here is a clip from a Statistical argument from Fightmetrics.com
Wrestling
If fans overrate St. Pierre’s stand-up, then wrestling may be an area where St. Pierre is actually underrated, if you can believe it. It’s not that people don’t think he’s good, it’s a problem of comparison. The UFC welterweight division is stacked with fighters who come from wrestling backgrounds and boast elite credentials. In his UFC career, St. Pierre has faced a who’s-who of vaunted takedown artists: Hughes, Koscheck, Frank Trigg, Sean Sherk, and Parisyan, to name a few. These fighters are known for their takedowns; it’s their best weapon. So it’s only natural that St. Pierre’s takedowns would be downplayed when it’s only a facet of his game and the primary part of his opponents’.
Here’s the reality: St. Pierre is possibly the best functional wrestler in MMA. He’s not the best pure wrestler; a Division I national champion like Koscheck could probably beat him in a straight wrestling match. But in an MMA match, the tables turn. St. Pierre uses his strikes to set up his takedowns, catches kicks, and performs lightning-fast level changes against the fence. It’s that dynamism that puts him at a significant advantage over a less well-rounded wrestler whose takedown shots seem telegraphed by comparison.
Over the course of the 17 fights in his career St. Pierre has succeeded on 37 of 46 takedown attempts for a success rate of 80%, well higher than the average takedown success rate of 48%. He managed to take down every one of his opponents except for Serra and Hieron, who he knocked out standing instead.
The other component of St. Pierre’s wrestling dominance is his takedown defense. Again, the average success rate is 48%, but his opponent’s success rate is just 17% on 7 of 42 attempts. And once down, opponents can’t keep St. Pierre on his back for very long. To date, only Koscheck has been able to hold St. Pierre down for more than a minute at a time. In total, St. Pierre has spent less than five of his 120 fighting minutes on his back.
Anyone who doesn't think GSP is the best wrestler doesn't understand how good Kos was considered, Josh Koscheck is extremely decorated and is one of top 5 best wrestlers to ever get into MMA.
Up until he decided to become a striker Koscheck had the most ridiculous shoot-in to a takedown which I can remember seeing. The explosive power which he had in the initial shot and the follow through drive was amazing, he'd shoot in for the takedown, drive the guy most of the way across the cage as he tried to sprawl and still get him down with authority. Until he ran into GSP, his takedowns were unstoppable and ranked up there with the best. Then he got introduced to a whole new level of wrestling.
As for who's best, up until his fight with Vera I probably would've put Couture in a tie with GSP. He held his own against Brock and if he wanted someone taken down, they went down. But after his 3 rounds of futile takedowns against Vera, I gotta give the edge to GSP since no one's stopped him yet.
GSP is a great wrestler, AND a great "mma wrestler" or whatever that means. He makes good wrestlers look really bad, and is most likely gonna be wrestling for Canada in the Olympics. I would say, yeah, he's prolly the best.
Do people realize Koshcek was legitimately considered a favorite to compete in the olympics when he left amateur wrestling to compete in MMA, Koschek was a top 4 in the nation wrestler all 4 years he competed, a division 1 champion and has numerous other wrestling accolades, this is a guy who was unable to prevent himself from being taken down nor could he really get GSP down, that is insane when you consider that wrestling is much bigger in the US than other countries.
Thanks for posting this cause it helps make my point that despite the lack of credentials GSP made the #5 guy look like he was never in a wrestling gym in his life, GSP isn't just using his wrestling to beat phenomenal strikers (he does) or phenomenal BJJ guys he is out wrestling phenomenal wrestlers like Kos.
The debate that inspired this was it ridiculous to think ridiculous to think GSP was a better wrestler than Dan Henderson. I tried to include anybody who I thought would garner anyones vote, people rave about Velasquez's takedowns and top control so I put him on, Randy is a wrestling legend so he made it, Kos and Lesnar are two of the most decorated collegiate wrestlers than I know of off the top of my head, Lindland was an olympic medalist so he needs to be included in any debate about this, Sonnen has been called the best wrestler at Team Quest by Dan Henderson and when you consider that included Dan and Lindland I think he deserves to make it. Sherk just filled the list because nobody else comes to mind.
I strongly believe the voting should favor GSP and am more interested in who believes other wise as well as there reasoning for doing so.
I voted for Cain, but its was a toss up between him and GSP for me. So far in his career, no one has been able to stop Cains takedowns. The dude is an animal when it comes to wrestling. I cant wait to see him fight Nog, that is gonna be a huge measuring stick.
I voted for GSP he uses his Wrestling best for MMA. I don't think he could beat somebody like Hendo or Kosh in a Wrestling match with only Wrestling rules but he utilizes his Wrestling like nobody else in MMA thats why gets my vote.
GSP is obviously the guy who will spring to most people's minds when a question such as this is asked.
However, if there was on person between Middleweight - Lightweight that could outwrestle him, I would bet on CB Dollaway. Dollaway's an OUTSTANDING wrestler. Not many people credit or acknowledge his wrestling because most people can't stand the sight of him, but I reckon he'd out wrestle anybody who didn't have 40lbs. I've seen videos of his wrestling training with Ryan Bader, and Bader himself is a very large LHW who's as decorated a wrestler as CB, and CB more than hangs in there with him.
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