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Which Middleweights Can Drop to WW and Challenge GSP?

8K views 72 replies 33 participants last post by  BobbyCooper 
#1 ·
Since Silva will not drop and GSP will not move up, which middleweights can drop to welterweight and really challenge GSP?

I actually think Bisping could do this. Demian Maia or Chris Leben might as well.

Nate the Great fights for Jackson, so he's out. I do not see Sonnen or the other challengers cutting to 170.

Anybody?
 
#3 ·
Bisping is better at striking than GSP and is naturally bigger , he obviously isnt the favourite but he has chance. :confused03: plus Evans didnt have it all his own way trying to get Bisping to the mat.
 
#9 ·
GSP is light years ahead of Bisping in every departement including Striking. My god are you joking?
Statistically GSP lands 14% more strikes, has a lower % landed on him and has faced far better competition without the likes of Chris Leben padding his numbers. Bisping is a decent striker but to say he is better than GSP is absurd and completely baseless.
 
#6 ·
Palhares? Decent stand-up, enough to survive on the feet with GSP. He has explosive takedowns and is very strong. He might stand a chance of getting GSP down and submitting him. Chances are slim, but it is still possible.
 
#42 ·
I really like how Palhares' name is mentioned, I agree. I'd really like to see that fight - he could make WW as well (the guy is 5'8!!).

Bisping would also fair alright, very fast hands and great standup, with a decent ground game and TDD.

Reckon Sonnen could cut to WW? If he could, problem solved.
 
#7 ·
I don't think Maia nor Leben would stand much chance against GSP. Maia just couldn't get him down and Leben is just junk compared to GSP in every aspect.

Of the names you have mentioend, Bisping definately has the best chance, but he cut from LHW to MW and I don't think he could lose another 15lbs.

What if Johnson beats Marquadt though? He would then have some good wins to be in line for the title and surely has the tools to give GSP a very good challenge.....

Diaz and Condit are the only other challenges I see for GSP at this point at Welter. But that is 3 potentials right there, enough to keep him busy while some of the younger guys develop.
 
#12 ·
Palhares, i believe he is over built at MW anyway, serious just look at his back, does he really need that much muscle?

to put this into perspective

Palhares = 5 foot 8 ins
GSP = 5 foot 10 ins
Kos = 5 foot 10 ins
Fitch = 6 foot 1 ins
Penn = 5 foot 9 ins

Seriously most guys his size would be at LW, Dam Palhares is just a ape fighting well over the normality limits for a guy his size, everyone he has ever faced in the UFC has been over 6 foot, Nate been his smallest opponent who is exactly 6 foot.
 
#15 ·
Bisping could never make 170 imo, he looks like a skinned rabbit when he makes 185. Paul Harris could make 170 easily and id still think he would be a powerhouse, He would certainly have the big risk factor for GSP with his explosive grappling but i think GSP would jab his way to UD as always.
 
#16 ·
Bisping is 6ft 2ins, same as Silva.

The Smaller MW's tend to be around 5ft 11 - 6ft 0, 6ft 2 is the high end of the scale, bare in mind Bisping was once a LHW, no chance does he make a healthy 170lb.

There is a very good chance Palhares could be the smallest MW fighting in the UFC division, just quickly looking and 5ft 8ins at MW is going to take some beating there are a few 5ft 11 in there and thats the next closest I have been able to quickly find.
 
#17 ·
None of them stand a chance. Palhares has decent take downs, but let's not over exaggerate them. His take downs are not remotely good enough to take GSP down.

GSP has proved time and time again that he has the best MMA wrestling in the game. Palhares wouldn't be able to take him down and would get picked apart on the feet.
 
#18 ·
See thing about under estimating Palhares is that he is one Crazy fcuker who would be willing to keep move forward and risk taking a hard shot and possibility getting KTFO to at least try for the TD.

See what I thought Shields needed to do in his pathetic attempt, at least come the championship rounds when it was obvious that for as long as it was standing he was just going to get outpointed all night long, was take bigger risks, hence move in and take him down whatever the cost, hence running straight threw that jap and big overhead right and just hoping it misses or does at least not connect right and if it does land hope that your chin can take it and you are still conscious.

That would be my strategy for guys like Palhares/Shields anyway once all else was failing fcuk it, don't back off risk having to take his best shot and just don't stop going forward for the TD till ether you have his legs to work the TD or you are out cold.
 
#22 ·
I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.



I'd love to see Maia vs. GSP and if Maia came in ruthless and not timid at all I think he could pull guard on GSP, or get sprawled on and do his signature hip-roll to guard.
 
#24 ·
I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.
What fight was you watching, what exactly did Shields do to amaze you with his performance aside from poke GSP in the eye.

Now don't get me wrong, I can see why GSP was happy to stand there all night long outpointing Shields as he came in with the same 3 strike combo over and over again, can't quite recall what the exact sequence was think it started with a inside leg kick (not sure on that) but it followed with a jab then round kick to the body.

Best thing about it was GSP had it owned with a counter every time to just keep picking away for his points, yet still he never learned and continued to keep trying his pathetic combo. Only time Jake mixed it up was when he poked GSP in the eye, yea that worked out nice GSP never saw that sh1t coming nor had a plan to counter that, Jake should of come out with more of that, was after all the only thing that worked out for him all night, he should of done more of that and try to blind GSP maybe mix it up with a few kicks to the balls see to see how that worked out, better still do the same again only to the other eye, maybe if he was successful in blinding GSP in both eyes then after his combo might of stared to work.

Am sorry but after the second round it was clear that he needed to make big adjustments to his approach else he was just going to get pointed out to a decision, and what do you know he just carried on with the same approach for 5 fcuking rounds and just as every MMA fan watching the fight knew was going to happen after just the first 2 rounds, GSP continued to remain patient countering Jakes's pathetic little combo approach, which Jake was probably using to try and set up a take down, but it was so far off ever been close to successful you would never of fcuking guessed, so no fault here on the account of GSP for just carrying on to win the decision Jake was giving him on a plate.

I bet GSP was thinking to himself, thank you Jake for been so fcuking predictable, I can do this sh1t all night long if you want, YESS!!! money in the bag for me here we go again :)

Seriously that fight lacked any excitement, if was just a predictable run of repetitive events from start to finish, it was just GSP having the answer to a very simple set of problems (or more accurately a SINGLE simple problem) Jake had set out for him, can't really fault GSP for just continuing doing what he was doing, hell if your opponent is going to keep coming for the same approach and you have a counter for it that is steering you right into an easy decision win then why change it, hell it was Shields who was falling more and more behind and needed to come up with something to at least try to change the way the fight was going.

To put it bluntly Shields sucked in that fight, he lacked heart, the will to win, the ability to adapt, his strategy was hopeless and there was no plan B, he laked the will to throw down and give it his all when the chips where down even when his title hopes where drifting further and further away, They should make a new Epic Fail title just for Jake Shields and make him the current raining Epic Fail champion of the UFC based on that performance, he truly does deserve such a symbol of recognition for the work rate and performance he gave that night.

So again seriously what fight was you watching, did I miss out on some amazing edge of your seat battle between two other guys coincidently named GSP and Jake Shields which you enjoyed so much, while I was to busy roped into watch the pile of sh1t that was been ditched out on the UFC 129 card.

Jake if you happen by any chance to read this, Go back to SF and get your ass subbed by Jacare you fcuking looser.
 
#29 ·
To be fair, Shields vs GSP wasn't the disaster that people make out. There have been lesser championship fights, but I am in no rush to rewatch it either. You've got two P4P fighters out there so sometimes things are gonna be slow and calculated and less risks are going to be taken.

Can't think of any Middleweights who can drop to WW and be a legit challenge to GSP.
 
#66 ·
This thread has all the usual troll action, I think you made some valid points. I didn't think it was a riveting fight but I thought it was a good fight.

I thought Jake made the best of the stand up even though he lost most of the exchanges he was still landing and I think he landed more strikes than anyone at WW against GSP not sure. I saw Jake slipping more punches than he's getting credit for but he was still losing so I think there is some middle ground in the debate IDK.

Bisping IMO couldn't stay one his feet long enough to make the striking debate debatable.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Come to think of it, Bisping is actually a very, very good match up to beat GSP. He's a points fighter who uses a long jab and a straight as well as good footwork to out point other fighters. He's also got some stellar takedown defense and once he gets put on his back he's generally very slippery and scrambles very well. His style could very well beat GSP.... that's interesting to say the least IMO. I just don't know if Bisping is good enough to do it.


I actually think the Sonnen fight was a bit of one to. Maia wasn't really having luck taking Sonnen down and was having difficulty even keeping him in his guard before the exchanged against the age and Maia threw some knees, I think he just caught Sonnen off guard or the stars aligned right. I honestly doubt Maia would have as much success if they had a rematch.
Really? REALLY? C'mon Toxic you can't honestly believe that. Chael's Kryptonite is BJJ. He's been subbed by damn near every top level BJJ player he's ever faced. Maia would do the same thing he did to him last time but even worse in a rematch.
 
#57 ·
Really? REALLY? C'mon Toxic you can't honestly believe that. Chael's Kryptonite is BJJ. He's been subbed by damn near every top level BJJ player he's ever faced. Maia would do the same thing he did to him last time but even worse in a rematch.
It's not the fact that he got subbed, it's that he got taken down by Maia - that's the anomaly.
 
#62 ·
Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.

This is good stuff , first of all Koscheck has horrible striking and is not a complete fighter he is generic American wrestler WHO has is slightly better than the average one, He has power in his hands with no technique and good shoot in and some reasonable submissions nothing more , granted he is effective and like Jon Fitch can win fights with these skills. Akiyama , Kang and Leben have better striking easily.
Don't mistake power for skill. Leben is a horrible striker, technically he sucks. Leben is a fun guy to watch but my god I'm not even sure I can think of 5 fighters in the UFC I would consider worse strikers. Akiyama is also horrible and he just gets worse because he lacks massive power but runs around trying to throw that one big haymaker like he is Shane Carwin or Dan Henderson. Its almost comical to me because frankly Jake Shields is a better striker than Chris Leben. Effective does not equal good. If Leben didn't have such a good chin he would have lost enough fights to get him cut a long time ago.
Alves and Dan Hardy werent beaten by striking they were beaten by wrestling. They were most likely outstruck the BRIEF time they were standing but they werent exactly beaten with striking.
Choosing not to strike with strikers doesn't make you less skilled. GSP was out striking them and was the better striker in both fights but it is smarter to attack your opponents weakness than fight to there strength.
Your point about GSP being elite is nonsense , just because he is the BEST fighter in the division does not make him better at everything than everyone , His weakest attribute is striking and Bisping is actually very underrated at striking.
.
His biggest weakness is his striking? Why has nobody ever been able to expose this glaring weakness? The only thing we have even seen from GSP that you could possibly call a weakness is you could question is his chin but even that was more to do with a perfectly landed shot from somebody who had never shown the ability to throw like that. Please give me a single example of GSP's horrible striking, show me where somebody capitalized or exposed his striking? Please....
 
#61 ·
Who besides Silva has Maia ever had trouble taking down? Maia has the best triangle in the game and he'd beat Chael over and over and over again. And I LOVE Chael.


Honestly if it weren't for the mental aspect of the game I bet the MW belt would be like the LHW belt, it'd go Silva > Maia > Chael > Silva etc etc etc.
 
#65 ·
Trai, I can not believe you are seriously considering Bisping as a threat to GSP. Honestly Bisping is nowhere near as good a striker and Bisping ability to counter punch only looks good because he has fought a lot of fighters with either horrible or no striking defense. The same goes for Bispings supposed stellar TD defense. Who has he defended so well against? Please who has Bisping ever defended against that could even hold a candle to the guys GSP has completely outwrestled. Bisping hasn't fought a decent wrestler since he Rashad and Hammill were green as grass. To even consider any relevant fight Bisping has had as a measuring stick to consider his TD defense even in the realm of possibility of stopping GSP is mind boggling.

It never fails to amaze me that the one thing people think is Bisping's weakness is his head movement. I honestly think the once think Bisping does best is he does a good job maintaining distance and avoiding getting hit.
 
#67 ·
I'm not saying he'd beat him outright. I'm saying that his style matches up well with him enough to make it cometitive. Believe me, I think Bisping is overrated as shit and I think GSP would beat him, but not as badly as he beat the snot out of Kos and Shields.

And Bisping's TDD isn't stellar necessarily, it's his ability to stand back up and scramble that's really good.
 
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