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TUF 15 Discussion

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#1 · (Edited)
Watching the first episode atm, Justin Lawrence, what a guy!

It sucks that Jeff Smith lost, looked like a good guy and IMO would've subbed him if it was at least 2 rounds.
 
#2 ·
Holy shit, justin lawrence put on the hell of a show, win or lose, I doubt this kid is going anywhere. the dude is all highlight reel moves !


edit: I can't watch it live (I'm in europe) so I'm watching it right now. there's more and more karate around these days. That guy, the wrestler with some karate really looked like he had something too, Daron Cruickshank. wrestling + karate looks like a scary combo. but he fought some tough dude too, best fight so far to me
 
#3 ·
I think this may very well be the most stacked season yet. Almost all the fighters looked great. Some of them looked like they have potential to be real contenders.But there is a big difference between the way one fights in a 1 round fight to a 2-3 round fight. Will be exciting to watch.
 
#4 ·
How did you guys like the live format?

I'm a big fight fan, so I could watch the fights muted, but I usually try to look at how the sport is coming off from a marketing and production standpoint because I genuinely care about the sport's success.

I think the whole "live" thing was a train wreck. The quietness in the building, the lack of commentators, the lulls in the production when it went to a decision (I watched a recorded version a couple hours later, but I literally missed a decision and intro to the next fight bc it cut to commercial when it shouldn't have and I was literally watching two guys stand in the ring while the cards were being tallied for 5 minutes) and the terrible interviews with the coaches and Dana.

I just felt like the whole production was mickey mouse and it reminded me of watching an elementary school play when a kid forgets there lines.

I realize I'm being a bit harsh because the fights were awesome for the most part, but the production value was absolutely atrocious in my mind.

I think this could be solved by having

A) commentators; maybe Mir and Anik
B) a small live audience; maybe 500-1000 people, not the 30 or so people like they had. To me a crowd in a small area would easily add entertainment value to the fight. I realize they would need to build something different to house the people, but so be it. I doubt they would have troubles selling tickets. A percentage of the ticket proceeds could go towards the fighters who are likely struggling financially at this point.
C) Better TV-commercial transitions. How did I end up watching two guys standing in the ring for 5 minutes and miss a decision? How long could it possibly take to tally the score cards when there is only 1 round?

The show was shitty last night as an entertainment product because they were selling a fight with no "bells and whistles" attached as Dana would say. I can appreciate the fights for what they are, but to do a two and a half hour show with little showmanship was dry in my opinion.

The cheesy pre-fight, pre-recorded interviews added some entertainment value and was the only thing(other than the fighters themselves) that saved the show in my opinion.

Luckily they will only have to deal with one fight a week from here on in. Still think all the criteria I suggested above should apply.

I'd love to see the ratings as the show went on, bc I could easily have seen casuals asking "What the hell is this?" and tuning out.

Or I could be painstakingly wrong.
 
#6 ·
Ryan, I agree with you for the most part, and I'm sure things will be done about it in the future, it was a first, and the firsts are rarely perfect, not even close.

objectively, it could have been a lot worse, but in terms of entertainment value, it could also have been a lot better.

But it was the prelim fights, 16 live fights, it had to have some "boring" moments as there were a small amount of boring fighters (and a couple even made it into the house)

I take it the regular episodes will be much better and they're probably already thinking on how they're going to do it the next season.

I'm not too worried about it and I'm definitely looking forward to see how the season unfolds as a whole.
 
#7 ·
I DVR'd it so for me it was awesome. I think that's going to be the motivation for other people watching it that you can really flash forward through all the junk. The big problem I had was that Faber, Cruz, and Dana were just to quiet, they needed to talk they needed to cuss out Mazzugatti point out what guys were doing wrong.

The big problem I'm going to have is telling these guys apart. A lot of these guys look alike and with only one round many fight alike.
 
#9 ·
Hm....I think that would be a good quarter-final fight. Sadly I think they are both going to get thrown in against a smotherer.

First round fights I would like to see

Vinc Pichel (7) vs Jeremy Larsen (10)
Myles Jury (2) vs Al Iaquinta (15)

-I don't think Larsen is a top eight talent but I would like to see him move on, I think Pichel might be a mismatch. I'm fine with wrestlers especially if they just decide to give Jury the last fight before the quarters.

Daron Cruickshank (6) vs Andy Ogle (11)
Justin Lawrence(3) vs Chris Saunders (14)

- I don't think Ogle and Saunders deserved to make it to the next round and I think they are fighting outside their weight classes. I wouldn't mind seeing both guys get KO'd.

Joe Proctor(8) vs Chris Tickle(9)
Cristiano Marcello(1) vs James Vick (16)

- Proctor/Tickle is a close fight I think they both might get taken out by match making in the first round but it would nice to see both guys swing leather for fifteen minutes in the opener. I think Marcello is the "best" I don't think he's a winner but I would like to see him remove Vick's leg.

Michael Chiesa (4) vs John Cofer (13)
Mike Rio(5) vs Sam Sicilia (12)

- I think this is a winners group, three of these guys are wrestlers, Sicilia I think can likely learn. Rio/Chiesa would be a good eliminator as they move on to face the better BJJ guy in Marcello.
 
#17 ·
I'm pulling for him, but he's fighting outside his weight class. I think the winner is likely going to be one of these five Marcello, Pichel, Rio, Jury, and Chiesa. For him the big thing is he's going to need to be on the team with control. The undersized guys that do well in this competition tend to be veterans not newbies.
 
#18 · (Edited)
The speed Lawrence showed was truly amazing, i dont expect it out of white guys :laugh: amazing speed and coordination - Machinda like with his movement. Seems to have a ground game also.


Anyway...other guys who i thought looked great.

Sicila (Bang)
Marcelo (obviously)
James Vick (Won using his worse attributes it seems)
Vinc Pichel (Slick BJJ, showed heart)
Myles Jury (clear favorite at this point i think)
 
#19 ·
I picked Myles to win the season he was supposed to be in before he got injured. I feel bad for this guy, having to work his way into the house twice now. If he gets eliminated in the first round in the house, I hope he at least gets a contract. The guy has won two fights technically, and that's usually what you need to do to get a contract. This guy has shown heart after coming back for another season and working his way up from scratch.
 
#20 ·
I think this will be the best and most open season in years. dont think Vick, Tickle, Cofer or Ogle will win it, but i honestly wouldn't be suprised if any of the other 12 won.

Obviusly Lawrence looked fantastic, Chiesa and Rio both looked good, Pichel showed a good ground game, Cruickshank and Marcello both looked great, Al Iaqunita looked good and Myles Jury was solid yet unspectacular.

I think Lawrence may be a bit to green to win this sort of format, my top 3 guys would probably be Rio, Chiesa or Cruickshank.
 
#21 ·
There's just something about Karate infused MMA standup that I absolutely love. It's what first made Machida my new favourite fighter when he broke through, and I just love the style of it visually. So fluid and the defensive footwork/movements seems to be perfect for avoiding major damage on most occasions. It just seems more cerebral and tactical.

Conversely to that, I also love the aggressive side, when caution is removed and the crazy kicks and major flurries come aplenty. Will be supporting both Lawrence and Cruickshank.

I wish there was the general widely found option to train Karate infused MMA standup with sparring etc. I've trained Muay Thai for a year, but I'd love to learn the karate techniques and movements that get used in MMA fights, without having to go through a standardised Karate class
 
#24 ·
this, I don't know yet, but we might start to see a trend of karate/wrestling(or BJJ) MMA fighters in the relatively near future. guys like Machida, now Thompson, and those two TUF guys, I mean, it looks like it's actually effective (honestly who would have thought, only 10 years ago?)
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's hard to see a guys skill set in a one round fight. Some of these guys finished their fights extremely fast, but that doesn't necessarily translate to them being favorites to win. Many below average fighters have gotten 30 second knock outs or under, and we also have to take into consideration that the stoppages were somewhat questionable in these cases. Guys who won dominant decisions on the other hand are actually quite impressive themselves because they did show that they have control and who's to say that they wouldn't have finished it in the second or third round, but on the other hand, who's to say they would have controlled their opponent in the second or third round?

I think one round fights were kind of a bad idea. Under such pressure, the fighters were forced to fight a certain way that may not compliment their style, and couldn't afford to even drop one round which adds even more pre fight pressure. It may add to excitement, but it doesn't show a fighters true potential. A fighter would either be overly aggressive because they wanted the finish, or they would rely on getting a take down and milking it for all it's worth. If every fight was 1 round, Frankie Edgar would have lost back to back fights to Gray Maynard, and Anderson Silva would have lost to Lutter and Henderson. Of course they would have fought differently if they had known it would be 1 round before hand, but still.. I hope they get rid of that rule on the next season of the ultimate fighter.
 
#29 ·
I agree completely. I just got to view a re-run of the show last night for the first time. I think the format was a bust. One 5 minute round does not necessarily deliver the best fighter. It could deliver the luckiest, or the one in the worst cardio shape and sometimes the best one too. But it doesn't gaurantee the best fighter. The occassional discussions between the coaches with Dana saying "there you have it, some feedback from the coaches" was just plain amateur. The fights are the highlight for me, don;t get me wrong, but I like to see some of the drama these guys can get into also.
 
#27 ·
I heard it too. Almost as if it had been edited. Sounded like a cartoon sound effect. There is no way that is real haha
 
#26 ·
I like the look of the karate style, but I think we are going to see more combinations muay thai with judo as the base instead of wrestling in the future. I think judo is just way more effective both offensively (trips) and defensively to throw wrestlers on their backs.

Jones has had some nice trips in the past, Chan Sung Jung uses it well, Akiyama has some of the nicest throws, but he can never seem to use it to keep a dominant position. Rousey is proof of what a high level practitioner of judo can do.
 
#28 ·
Yea Judo seems to come out as well. in that Bout against Shields, even tho he lost, I really enjoyed watching Akiyama, he pulled off a couple of epic throws and trips in there, Shields had no idea what hit him (he said it in an interview)
 
#33 ·
^ When I saw that on Ultimate Insider all I was thinking was "Thanks for rubbing your sweaty-ass body all over my nice suit bub!"
 
#34 ·
I've watched last weeks episode AT LEAST 5 times in it's entirety!

It was SOOOOOO good. I couldn't believe I was getting to see 16 LIVE fights in less than 2 hours.

God damn, there are some ferocious 155'ers 'in the mix' this season, I just need to familiarize myself with their names

Actually, I'm going to watch it again right now to do just that.
 
#36 ·
Methinks Cruz's team is quite a bit better than Faber's. If Cruikshank (or whatever his name is) loses they're up a shit crick.

I think the 2 best guys are Jury and Lawrence. Cruikshank may be number 3, and it's tough to say how good Marcello is.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I was surprised how late Tickle went. I couldn't stand his antics, but he looked better than a couple guys that went ahead of him imo.

OMFG: Knee from Hellllllll!!!!! Cruikshank got too confident.

Edit: After the replay the you could see the knee wasn't that hard, just hit him square on the chin.
 
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