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Overeem's defense is TRT.

5K views 50 replies 29 participants last post by  AmdM 
#1 ·
From frontrowbrian:

When told:
"More likely Reem goes for the jurisdiction argument, that the NSAC had no right to test"

frontrowbrian: "already confirmed the argument will be TRT"

frontrowbrian: "he can argue he had just injected. Right after injection, ur levels spike drastically and subside as time passes"
Sorry Reem, I like you and all but come on now...you don't need TRT unless you've been roiding, guys like Dan Henderson and Randy Couture who are in their 40's are the ones who may need TRT.
 
#20 ·
I just did a bit of reading of the NAC regulations for the fun of it regarding this case and wondering what the NAC can do with an unlicensed fighter (thankfully it's a hell of a lot easier to read than the usual legal-speak regulations). Fortunately for Overeem I don't think he is going with the jurisdiction argument anymore. Important to remember (IIRC) they had an agreement to randomly test Overeem two times in a six month period when granting his temporary license.

From what I've read, there are two parts that are relevant to Overeem's case, being an unlicensed fighter and being a fighter with an expired license.

Regarding the second part, being a fighter with an expired license:

NAC 467.089 Effect of expiration of license on jurisdiction of Commission. (NRS 467.030) The expiration of a license does not deprive the Commission of jurisdiction to:
1. Proceed with an investigation of the licensee;
2. Proceed with an action or disciplinary proceeding against the licensee;
3. Render a decision to suspend or revoke the license; or
4. Otherwise discipline the licensee.
As they had an agreement to randomly test Overeem, I would say they were within their rights to continue with this even after the license expired. Maybe for convenience, as the high T/E ratio was found after the fight, they don't take retrospective action on his expired license. However, as a now unlicensed fighter, they have the following guidelines:

NAC 467.082 Grounds for denial of application for license. (NRS 467.030, 467.080, 467.100) The Commission may deny the application of an applicant if it finds that the applicant has performed any act which would, if performed by a licensee, subject the licensee to discipline pursuant to NAC 467.885
So basically if Overeem has performed any act that would get a licensed fighter disciplined, the NAC can deny his application. These acts include (of course) the use of any drugs banned by the world anti-doping agency, as well as if he "Failed or refused to comply with a valid order of a representative of the Commission". So he couldn't have simply refused to participate in the random drug test, if they had an agreement to when providing the license original license.

Finally, if they do refuse his license application, he cannot re-apply for 1 year as a standard rule, unless the NAC specifically state otherwise when they deny the license.

Source: http://leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html
 
#3 ·
Random Testing is entirely legit. When you inject Testosterone you will have a spike for a brief period. If he was tested just after injecting than that is just bad timing and poor luck. So it is possible. A test is available to determine if that is the case. But in all honesty guys the size of Reem usually don't need TRT. Im in med school with a minor in endocrinology, if anyone has any further questions ask em here or pm me.
 
#5 ·
Guys who look like Todd Duffee and the Reem being on TRT is a mockery to the system and nothing could more clearly display the way the system is being exploited.
 
#7 ·
They just need to Ban TRT..It's to easy to get a prescription. Anyone can lower there testosterone levels by just changing there diet and eating such simple things such as soybeans....


They don't test the fighters who are on TRT enough to see if they are cheating in there camp..Which has happened numerous times now..Chael, Nate The Great, Overeem was planning on coming down as well...It's complete BS!!!
 
#8 ·
If The Reem can get a TRT exemption in Nevada then MMA as a whole may as well quit testing and just let fighters go to town because that is exactly what they would be doing anyway.
 
#9 ·
I dont get it at all...

Steroids and TRT should be allowed , as long as they are supervised and checked off by a doctor with the Rule that on fight day your Testosterone levels are normal for a adult fighting male.

I go to the gym and lift weights 6 times a week and some would say im " Jacked " on a daily basis and i have seen the use of steroid and testosterone boosters and so forth and the advantages of using steroids are not necessarily what you think they are...

Steroids help your muscles recover from injury and come in various forms , where testosterone does give you a added push and drive but it doesn't make you a super skilled human being ... if your taking steroids for the purpose of building muscle , your body will actually go slower as you've added mass and you cant punch or cant run as fast.

so people need to sit back and think before they just jump the gun and think that steroids or TRT is the devils drug , because the realistic thing is John Smith cant go out their and get on steroids and be in the UFC .. they got their by hard work and years of training , not by a pill or needle
 
#10 ·
We are talking about a guy who was a mid level LHW and then packed on an absurd amount of muscle very quickly and that success came because of that added size. A normal person could not put on that kind of muscle that quickly so for Reem to claim that he has a naturally low level is absurd because if his levels were abnormally high naturally it would help justify that size increase.
 
#11 ·
you are part of the group of people who are obvious to hard hard these people work

i quit drinking , drugs and went from being 140 pounds to 160 of muscle in a year and people claim i did steroids , but the truth is i just dedicated my life to change and ive never touched steriods

and i could easily see someone going from LHW to HW in a couple of years .. with the right diet and support easy.. im going to be 175 by the 2 years mark so thats a 25% gain in weight and muscle in 2 years .. if overeem was 200 becoming 250 in two years is easily attainable for someone whos job is to fight for a living....
 
#13 ·
^ i somewhat concur with you, as i am a very avid weightlifter as well. Do I think steriods should be allowed? No, but under medical supervision there is nothing wrong with TRT if it is done correctly and not abused. Overeem put that weight on over 5-10 years. I am not saying that he didnt use steriods to do it. But it is not difficult to put on that much weight over that time if diet and training is followed correctly with proper recovery.
 
#15 ·
Overeem went from fighting at LHW in 2007 to weighing 255 pounds of solid muscle in 2008. A professional athlete doing that is suspect but not impossible some people have naturally higher testosterone levels, for an athlete who supposedly has low levels of testosterone though its impossible. Either he is cheating or overcompensating which would be cheating.
 
#18 ·
how anyone can defend Overeem at this point is beyond me. He tried to avoid getting caught cheating, he did once, they surprised him with a test and he failed it miserably. Getting a TRT license post-test is about as unethical and shady a thing I've ever heard of in the UFC. This is getting insane, I feel bad for JDS and Anderson Silva, it's complete dogshit having to fight juiced up fighters. Shame on you Overeem.
 
#19 ·
Ok so the monster we know as Overeem is just a guy that is struggling to keep his testosterone at NORMAL levels? Can you imagine what he would look like if he was actually abusing steroids???? They should juice this idiot up to a 1,000,000:1 ratio so he cant even move inside the octagon.

This just in: Overeem cites a prescription from Inspector Gadget to equip 18ft bionic arms inside the octagon.
 
#21 ·
TRT was created to help people who need it to live a normal life. It was not created to help older athletes, who are completely strong and healthy compared to your average Joe, carry on competing at the highest level of sports.

If it's legit, why are they not allowing this shit in other sports? A google brings up pro-wrestling, bodybuilding and MMA as the three "sports" that use the treatment. MMA is soiling its name being associated with this rubbish.

TRT is not there for sports men and women. When your body is not working optimally, its time to quit. Its there to help people get by in life. Overeem would be living life just fine without this treatment. He might not be the monster he is now, but he would be competing and making money. A productive life.

As for people like Hendo? Hes 41 for gods sake. Time to call it a day if you need to juice up to be able to compete.
 
#23 ·
TRT was created to help people who need it live a normal life. It was not created to help older athletes, who are completely strong and healthy compared to your average Joe, carry on competing at the highest level of sports.

If it's legit, why are they not allowing this shit in other sports? A google brings up pro-wrestling, bodybuilding and MMA as the three "sports" that use the treatment. MMA is soiling its name being associated with this rubbish.

TRT is not there for sports men and women. When your body is not working optimally, its time to quit. Its there to help people get by in life. Overeem would be living life just fine without this treatment. He might not be the monster he is now, but he would be competing and making money. A productive life.

As for people like Hendo? Hes 41 for gods sake. Time to call it a day if you need to juice up to be able to compete.
I totally agree with this pov.
If MMA wants to be seen as a honorable sport, this TRT rubbish has to go away.
 
#25 ·
Oh come on, you can't be serious Alistair. This TRT craze has to stop. Fighters don't need TRT, no matter how old. TRT exists to enable people who have a deficiency to have a normal amount of testosterone and therefore to lead normal lives. Even with TRT your testosterone levels should never be three times the normal level except directly after you got the injection.

Whatever. If he has a prescription there's nothing the commission can do. He wasn't licensed before so he wasn't obligated to disclose his 'condition' to anyone. It still is a lame move. Shame on you. :(
 
#26 ·
Maybe it’s us who have the problem and us who need to change. Maybe it’s time to bring all sports into the 21st century and MMA can lead the way.

For about 40 years now we have been aware of athletes using drugs to enhance their training and performance and we’ve tried to stop it. How’s that working? In any sport?

MMA isn’t just any sport. It is extreme. We expect these guys to put on super human performances. Anyone who has ever sparred a 5 minute round knows this is true. Then, we act shocked and offended when they use every tool they find can to deliver.

Maybe it’s time to marry sport and science and find out what the human body is really capable of. This could bring the next big step in human evolution. At the least it would be a boon to medicine as we learn more about the long term and side effects of certain PED”s.

No one is forcing or taking advantage of these athletes. They are determined to burn brighter than normal even though they know it means they’ll burn shorter.

I say LIGHT‘EM UP and enjoy the show.
 
#29 ·
Say an athlete doesn't want to use TRT. Say they want to fight clean because their own research has shown that these treatments can ruin you in later life. If, as you suggest, we make it open season for PEDs, where does that leave any fighters who refuse to do PEDs? It's a massive disadvantage for them. So in the end the clean fighters are the ones who are punished. Goes against what I think sports fundamentally represent.

Not for me brother. To watch an MMA fight knowing that one is on PEDs and the other isn't, immediately makes the whole sport far less appealing to me. Because if the juiced up fighter wins, it wont mean shit to me. I will, in time, stop watching the sport if it ever takes this route.
 
#28 ·
If the excuse passes(again with TRT) then this sport is officially a joke.
 
#33 ·
I would be interested to know if he wrote on his paperwork when taking the random drug screening if he was on TRT. This alone could sink him. Almost the exact same way it got Diaz. If you don't put any treatments you are on during the test and sign off saying that everything on there is the truth then you get screwed.

Nice try Overeem, but I have a feeling this won't go far. I would imagine if he was on TRT and had put it on his paperwork we wouldn't be hearing about this.
 
#37 ·
Another consideration is age. I'm 6'6" and at 20 I couldn't consume enough weight gain shakes to hit 190lbs. Now I'm in my early 30s and I'm a fit 240 without really trying. I think age is an influence to his size but he obviously juices based on the test results.
 
#38 ·
The support for Overeem seems unjust and is frustrating to say the least.

In general there are always going to be varying opinions but why someone would try and justify this outrageous result is beyond me. Get rid of the guy, he's no good for the sport and a black eye for the UFC if the fight still happens.
 
#39 ·
I talked to a IFBB (International Federation Body Builder ) Pro , who was a national champion and placed a bunch of times who is over 50 years old about this situation

i showed him the photo of Overeem from 2003 - 2009 and explained how his style has gone from strictly kickboxing with cardio to his current style of kickboxing using straight power with less cardio

He explained to me that it is easily attainable without the use of steroids over the course of 5 years , especially if your career is fighting ... if you dont have to go to work 8-4 , workout after and maintain your diet , while working a standard career

Now the use of testosterone and TRT is always touchy subject , but their is always two sides to every story and i see the other side of a dedicated individual , who has changed and bettered them self by becoming bigger , stronger and a power house instead of a standard kickboxer , trying to make it.

... and to all those people who just cant believe that's its possible without the use of steroids .. well your the type of person who couldn't achieve that anyway because your not willing to get off the couch and do something about it
 
#40 ·
you are delusional. The man just tested positive for 14 times the normal limit of testosterone. IFBB pro body builders are steroid freakshows, the absolute worst person to ask about steroids and expect anything but a lie.

Ask a fighter. Or a sports commission like the one that just caught overeem. No lets ask the crack dealers of the sporting world about hard work.



Completely natural. Ivan just eat his spinach. Like your popeye!
 
#46 ·
They give out therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) for it, but they're rather rare. USADA has given out two TUEs for TRT in their history. One of the athletes had lost his testicles, so he had a really good case.

Testosterone doesn't help you grow muscles , it keeps you driven and
Motivated
That's just not true. Anabolic steroids help you grow muscle. The anabolic in the name refers to the phase in metabolism where something is built from smaller pieces.
 
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