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Nick Diaz "Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins

9K views 73 replies 32 participants last post by  AlexZ 
#1 ·
"Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins


Nick Diaz likes to spew a lot of conspiracy theories about how things go down in MMA. Diaz loved painting the picture of Georges St-Pierre being the UFC's golden boy prior to their UFC 158 meeting. It seems Diaz may have a bit of truth to go with his words.

In a video that's surfaced recently, Vice President of Business and Legal Affairs and Assistant General Counsel for the UFC Michael Mersch approaches Diaz on the day of the UFC 158 weigh-ins.

The conversation starts off like small talk with Mersch asking if Diaz is "good" but then things begin to get murky.

"Here, they're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour," Mersch says. "Just in case somebody doesn't make it. But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170."

MMA fighters are given a one-pound allowance in non-title affairs but both competitors must hit the required weight exactly (or below it) in title contests.

"Why didn't we know that before?" asked a member of Diaz's entourage.

Although taken aback by the question, Mersch seems to keep going with his rehearsed spiel. The audio goes between audible and inaudible but you can make out some of Mersch's words.

"Should be fine, hopefully, other than that. Just so you guys are in the loop, if there's…" said Mersch.

Diaz's camp again asks why they weren't notified the day before but Mersch ignores the question and continues.


It's just something to keep in mind. That's kind of an off the record type of thing. But keep that in mind. As long as he's under 171, we should be good. But, there is a time period afterwards, for you and Georges only. All the other fighters have to make it the first time. Just letting you guys be in the loop, okay?

A member of Diaz's camp drops a perfect line to sum up the conversation, "that's a loophole. A Canadian loophole."

By just watching the video you can tell the conversation is very shady and something seems a little off. If St-Pierre's injured Achilles was really bad it's likely he couldn't have done as much cardio/weight loss activities as he would've liked and possibly came into UFC 158 a bit heavy.

Regardless of whether or not you think a conspiracy is afoot, it's clear that the rules were bent at UFC 158. Both Diaz and GSP were given an additional hour to cut weight and also were virtually given a pound allowance that shouldn't have been allowed.

Dana White, among others, love to point out the ongoing corruption that has plagued boxing for years but a video like this isn't going to make MMA look any better.




http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1577651-off-the-record-rule-changes-emerge-from-ufc-158-weigh-ins


Video is still available here and it's still working as of 7:45 ET.

http://www.bjpenn.com/video-did-offi...-act-ufc-news/
 
#33 ·
To be fair as much as rules are rules, it's just the weigh in and both fighters will be fighting well above the 170 limit anyway come fight night. Saying that it's 100% shady the way the whole situation was handled doesn't paint the sport in a positive light. The fact the ufc took down the video just makes it look worse.

As for NoYards speech about how Diaz should have been DQ offence for striking out after the bell. UFC rules state it is at the referee discretion. Also saying that changing a rule set in stone e.g. weigh in limits is the same as something that should be at the referees discretion is not the same no matter how you try and spin it...

As for the rules grabbing the fence/gloves/shorts is also in the same bracket of offence and you always see it happen at least twice before they get a warning.

@NoYards... Serious question do you just defend GSP till the death, or do you detest Diaz because of his unique form of 'stand up lay and pray'?
 
#45 ·
Okay, first, the weigh-in rules are NOT 'set in stone' .. I posted the rules which clearly allow the commission to make modifications to those rules, that's not "spinning", that's an 'advanced and complicated method of determining the facts' called "reading the rules" ... it allows a 'catch-weight', and while many people believe that a 'catch-weight' fight can not include a championship fight, there is no such rule .. it is 'traditional' not to do so, but if we are talking about rules, then you'll need to show me the rules that state this.

Second, I actually think it was the proper decision not to DQ Diaz, and the ref used the proper discretion ... just as the commission did in modifying the weigh in rules (IF they actually did that, and it actually came into play for either GSP or Diaz.) The point is not that all rules need to be strictly adhered to, the point is if you're going to whine about minor discrepancies in how you believe the rules should be adhered to, then let's talk about ALL the rules and how strict or lenient there are adhered to.

Third, I'll defend GSP when the argument against him is BS, as are 90% of the "boring fighter' arguments I've seen so far.

I'll admit to liking GSP more than Diaz. I don't play into all the 'anti-hereo' bullshite, Diaz is an anti-socoal punk, a whiner, and a bully, whose whole shtick is to 'break the rules' so so-called "rebels" can identify with his nonsense. I don't put up with people like him in my real life, and I see no need to support someone like him just because he's a UFC fighter.

If you feel GSPs fighting style is boring, that's fine, that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it whether it is based on solid evidence, emotional reactions, or ignorance of MMA ... but in case you haven't noticed, I don't just post a bunch of simple emotional opinions, I post data to back up my opinions and try to explain why I have those opinions (if you disagree with the 'facts' as, or how, I present them, then fine, present your own 'facts' and we can debate their validity and meaning, but don't simply ignore that I am posting actual data and claim it is just opinion) ... such as Diaz's 'stand up L&P' ... which I clearly explained as someone using a single technique they are very strong at in order to 'play safe' (ie: Diaz is usually under no more 'risk' using his 'walk forward with his iron chin stuck out in front of him until he can wear down his opponent', than GSP is using his TD and G&P technique. You may find Diaz doing the same thing over and over again exciting, and I may find GSP doing the same thing over and over again exciting .. but both fighters are basically doing the same thing .. doing what they are best at to limit risk (or as you would call it: "playing it safe".)
 
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#34 ·
Nate Diaz missed weight on first attempt and everyone said how unprofessional he and his team were.

But since Georges gets to have a different set of rules to look like he is on weight....he is PROFESSIONAL AS IT GETS!

It is funny how peoples fandom or down right hatred for certain fighters cloud any sort of judgement on certain situations.
 
#37 ·
This is shady as hell. Anybody who has cut weight before knows how much 1 pound of water actually is. Think about a 16 oz. bottle of water. That's the extra amount that Diaz had to cut that GSP didn't.

Nick had virtually no chance of winning and it probably didn't make much of a difference but what the f***? I would be so pissed if I was Nick.
 
#38 ·
Nate was told to lose .6 lbs. Go back and sweat it out.

Either Montreal has funky rules and seemed like an hour before hand would be a good time to let Nick know.

Or the whole commission or UFC changed the rules because they knew GSP was sick and having trouble.

I'm hoping it is the first one.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Rules are rules when Diaz gets busted for "marijuana metabolites" but when it come to established weight guidelines for the poster boy.... :dunno:

Not only would the fight be a non-title fight but Diaz should have been entitled to a percentage of GSP purse.

Who cares about .9 lbs? NSAC the same people that care about banned substances etc. etc.
 
#55 ·
Exactly. What is .9 lbs? Well what is the tiny micro metabolites of cannabis that were found? Nate Diaz was .6 lbs over for his title fight....yet had to go back and lose that weight and was not benefited from rounding down to 155. Seems like all commissions and all champ fights would go by the same rules. How hard is it to get a decimal scale? I have a decimal scale.

I understand different commissions do slightly different things. And perhaps there is a good explanation for a rep coming up to Diaz an hour beforehand to tell him the rules or new rules of the weigh in.

Rules is rules. When shady things happen in boxing, MMA fans cry foul up and down. But when something like this happens it is no big deal. The double standard is crazy.

I'll be interested to learn what actually went down and what the rules are/were changed too. Hopefully we get an explanation. And hopefully commissions don't have the ability to change rules on the fly.
 
#50 ·
I've seen this crap on another site. Simple fact is, that if they didn't give GSP the extra time, Diaz wouldn't have been in a title fight. If anything, it was for Diaz's benefit that GSP be allowed extra time. It's not like if he missed weight, they'd just cancel the fight, it'd turn into a 5 round non-title fight. The extra time benefited Diaz more than GSP. At least the extra time gave Diaz the opportunity to fight for a title rather than be dominated in a 5 round non-title fight.
 
#68 ·
The simple answer here is common sense... The Athletic Commission in this area has always rounded weights since the Matt Serra v. Georges fight. In the video, it was an employee of the UFC talking to Nicks camp, making sure they were aware of the rules, not the AC letting Nicks camp know there was a change in the rules.

Every AC is allowed to adopt their own rules. They do not have to follow the unified rules at all. Its up to the UFC to decide if they want to hold an event where a commission sets rules that are too far removed from the unified rules.

All rules that have been quoted in this thread so far have been from the unified rules or the NSAC set of rules, which have NOTHING to do with this fight or any fight that has ever been held there.

There was no favoritism, the only similarity to favoritism is the rules are published in French, so GSP could certainly have a better grasp of the rules than a non-french speaker. But the same could be said about rules being published in English giving the non-English speaker a disadvantage here in the USA.
 
#71 ·
Didn't Nick retire? This BS is a complete non-issue in regards to the outcome of the fight. Nick had nothing for GsP plain and simple. Just go away Nick , your days of relevance at the top of the division are over. Go away with some class/dignity if possible because all this allegation BS just comes off as pathetic considering his effort in the fight.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
 
#72 ·
I'll give Diaz a break in so far as complaining publicly and/or making this video and releasing it.

Someone made the video but we don't know that it was Diaz or one of his camp, and while he did complain about it in the video, I don't think he's made any big deal out of it outside of that video.

The issue here is the rules, and if they were followed properly.

The evidence so far seems to consistently suggest that this is how the Quebec commission regulates the weigh ins, and they've done it consistently, and fairly (although they are not using the exact same rules as the US commissions, but if anyone had bothered to look, the commissions around the world can, and do, use some very different rules, including weight classes, although usually they change many of the big differences to conform more to the UFC rules when UFC fights come to town) .... although Diaz and his camp didn't seem to be aware of the differences.
 
#73 ·
Decimal Controversy: Nick Diaz's lawyer releases texts from UFC & Quebec officials
By Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28 2013, 8:08p @brentbrookhouse 48


Nick Diaz's lawyer, Jonathan Tweedale, provides Bloody Elbow with text transcripts of conversations with UFC and Quebec officials in the wake of the "decimal controversy" surrounding the UFC 158 weigh-ins for Diaz's bout with Georges St. Pierre.

We are still in the wake of the confusion surrounding a video that surfaced after UFC 158 of UFC Senior Vice President of Business and Legal Affairs and Assistant General Counsel Michael Mersch telling the Nick Diaz camp that his fight with Georges St. Pierre that the Quebec commission "doesn't count decimals" when the fighters step on the scales. This meant, simply, that 170.9 would be considered the same thing as 170, a rule of which the UFC was clearly unaware as they inquired why they were not informed of this prior to this close to the weigh-in. This is very strange given that title fights have always required a fighter to come in exactly at or below the contracted weight, in this case 170.

Mersch informed the Diaz camp that this was "kind of an off the record type thing." The original video was subsequently pulled from YouTube on a copyright claim made by the UFC despite it seemingly not being anything they could have had a copyright on. The Quebec commission also claimed that this was standard practice for them, despite a history that certainly suggests otherwise as they've announced decimals in the past and even forced Bernard Hopkins to cut 0.9 pounds for his title fight against Jean Pascal.

Jonathan Tweedale, Nick Diaz's lawyer, contacted Bloody Elbow and exclusively provided very interesting text message transcripts from the evening of the weigh in, explaining "Given some of the media coverage, we need to set the record straight on the timing that the issue of the 0.9 was raised by Nick Diaz. The issue was pursued immediately. On the evening of March 15, Mike Mersch and I exchanged the following correspondence (via text message), in which he denied any knowledge of a .9 allowance or ignoring the decimal."

Mersch, again, was the man in the video who informed the camp of the "no decimal" changes.

Here is the text conversation between Tweedale (JDT) and Mersch (MM), which starts at 9:24 p.m.:

JDT: "Hi Mike. Nick is curious about the .9 pound allowance at today's weigh-in for his championship bout. He doesn't want to be a nuisance about this, but he's a bit confused. Can you shed any light?"

MM: "I don't know what you're talking about. All parties weighed in appropriately according [to] the Quebec Commission."

JDT: "Of course. You're right, and he knows that. He just wanted to know why the Quebec Commission was okay with a 0.9 pound weight allowance for a championship fight. Nick's not going to make an issue of it, but it's been gnawing at him since it was explained to him at the weigh-ins, on an "off the record" basis or otherwise. I just want him to stop thinking about it, and thought you could provide some insight."

MM: "I have been told everyone made weight so there's nothing to make an issue about. He might want to focus on how he's going to win the fight rather than spending the night making excuses about why he lost."

The correspondence continued at 9:46 p.m.:

JDT: "C'mon Mike you're just going to stonewall on this issue? We're reaching out in a discreet manner, as appropriate in the circumstances. Meet us half-way."

MM: "Huh? The Commission determined both fighters weighed 170 or less. What am I supposed to do about that? I would think Nick would be excited to compete for the UFC Welterweight title. Seems like he's focused on the wrong issue."

JDT: "No one wants you to *do* anything. If the answer is simply "the Quebec Commission permits a promoter to request that .9 pounds be rounded down in a championship fight (unlike, e.g., the Washington commission for Nate's fight), and Zuffa made that request here", then pls confirm. Far better to reach out this way than the uncooperative Twitter/media way."

MM: "How would I know what the Quebec Commission does? I was informed everyone made weight like everyone else at the weigh in. Zuffa made no requests for anything from the Quebec Commission. Good luck to Nick with the fight."

JDT: "Okay. I'll let Nick know that you can't shed any light on why Quebec treats 170.9 as 170 in a championship fight. Disappointing. Thanks for your time and your wish of luck to Nick for the fight."

MM: "Again I have no idea what you're talking about. The Quebec Commission indicated both fighters were 170 or lower."

JDT: "If you don't know then I should be asking someone else. No worries, Mike. Which UFC exec advised Nick and his entourage before the weigh-in that "If you're 170.2, you're 170. If you're 170.9, you're 170...that's a kinda off the record type of thing"?"

MM: "I would think you'd direct that to the source: the Quebec Commission. The UFC has nothing to do with weigh ins in Quebec."

Tweedale explained, "We appreciate that Mr. Mersch was in a difficult position, evidently having been instructed by the Quebec Commission to relay to Mr. Diaz some last-minute, unlawful 'rule changes' to give the hometown fighter a reprieve from his duty to make weight at 170 pounds. But the above transcript shows Mr. Mersch's views on the matter. If he and the UFC thought that this last-minute rule change was above-board, lawful, or defensible, Mersch presumably would have answered our legitimate questions about the 0.9 and ignoring the decimal in a forthright and straightforward manner."

Tweedale also provided transcripts from a text conversation with Michel Hamelin, director of the Quebec commission -- Regie des Alcools des Courses et des Jeux (RACJ) -- on March 24 after the video of the interaction between Mersch and the Diaz camp became public.

Here are those transcripts between Tweedale and Hamelin (MH), starting at 1:19 p.m.:

JDT: "Michel, do you have anything more to say about the 0.9 pound allowance for Georges?"

MH: "No the responsable of the weight in call 170 as mentioned."

JDT: "Okay. That was the weight called out. But what about the rule? Why was the "special" rule made that anything up to 170.9 was to be called out as "170"?"

MH: "The were no specials rules !"

The conversation continued on March 25, at 3:45 p.m.:

JDT: "If you had a rule allowing 170.9 to be 170, you would have pointed me to it when I contacted you on March 15. It is 10 days later and you haven't done so. It is clear that you have no rule for "ignoring the decimal"."

MH: "Jonathan , if you need a official answer, send a official email , With your quetions, and you will received the answer to your question from de RACJ , Regards , M hamelin"

JDT: "I want the 'off the record' answer as well, per the video."

MH: "For us the is NO off record , we only follow the RACJ rules, and I respectfully answer to all yours questions when you call ."

At that point, the Quebec commission released their statement basically stating that they don't count the decimal -- again, something their history is not consistent with -- and allow an extra hour to make weight for a title fight.

There are obvious inconsistencies here in the stories of both the commission and the UFC. As Tweedale pointed out, the UFC very well could have been in a bad position where the commission changed something at the last minute and they were left with no choice but to go along with it, but it's still strange to see Mersch tell Tweedale "I don't know what you're talking about" when it was absolutely a conversation he held.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/28/4158616/ufc-158-nick-diaz-lawyer-texts-decimal-controversy
 
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