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Strength & Power Training

63K views 75 replies 36 participants last post by  Curious1 
#1 · (Edited)
First and foremost, this thread was created by me to share information and hopefully enlighten some souls, please don't take it personally like I'm shoving it down your throat. You can disagree if you want but all of my thread is backed by evidence/links.

I feel the need to enlighten the many who are unaware of how to properly train for STRENGTH and POWER in regards to MMA/Martial Arts. It seems that a lot of people are stuck in the bodybuilding type routines, which is fine and dandy if you're into bodybuilding, but it doesn't transition or apply very well to martial arts. First off, let me point out some of the essential basics:

#1) You should not ever have a day where you are working out your biceps (example: "Oh yeah, today is biceps and triceps!" <--No.)
#2) Isolation exercises are BAD!!
#3) Looking big/cut does not equal being strong
#4) If you're doing crunches to get a 6-pack, you're gay
#5) You NEED to be doing squats, overhead presses, deadlifts, dips, and pull-ups.
#6) No more calf raises, leg extensions, or hamstring curls.

Now, here are a couple EXAMPLES of ways to split up your workout (these routines are primarily aimed at getting STRONGER, having a better core, and developing your posterior chain)

Example 1: 3 day Split
This is the current split I do, and is broken into a PULL day, a PRESS day, and a SQUAT day.

example Pull Day:
Deadlifts: 5x3
*5x3 means doing 5 sets of 3 reps, make sure the weight is heavy.

Wide grip pullups: BWx3x5
*Work your way up with these then start adding weight onto your pullups

Bent Over Rows:
135x3x5

Some other excercises you can do on your pull day are: Zercher deadlifts, shrugs, reverse curls, hammer curls, wrist curls, Z and chin ups.

example Press Day:

Bench Press:5x5

Overhead Press/PushPress:95x1x8
125x1x4
135x1x2
125x1x4

Dips:BWx3x10
*Just like pull-ups, you can use the weight belt for dips as you get stronger

Close Grip Bench:4x4

Other exercises you can use for press day: cleans, skullcrushers, decline DB bench, incline DB bench, push press, seated weighted bench dips

example Squat Day:
Full Squats:5x5

Front Squats:135x1x8
185x1x6
205x1x3
185x1x5

Overhead Squats:95x2x8
115x1x5

Dumbell snatches:55x2x6

other exercises you can do on squat day: lunges, lateral lunges, zercher squats, parallel squats, barbell snatches


Example 2: 2 day split

Day one:
Deadlift:5x5

Overhead press:5x5

Weighted pullup/chinup:same as before

Day two:
Squat:5x5

Benchpress:5x5

Bent over row:same as before

**All of these numbers are made up and imaginary, but are just giving you an example of what kind of weight incriments/reps you should be doing. Also, you can mixup using the 5x5 on squats,deadlifts,bench press. Another good way to do those exercises is start light, do a set of 10, then do 2-3 more sets of heavy weights with reps under 5. You can also work your way up in a pyramid type pattern, such as 4 sets of 8,6,4,2, with the weight increasing each set.


Other helpful links:

DeFranco's Training - Westside for Skinny Bastards A modified lifting program for "Hardgainers"

Eclipse Gym :: View topic - Bill Starr 5x5 Primer - How to create your own 5x5 program

Super Squats 20 Rep Squat Routine

RossTraining - Articles

Mixed Martial Arts Training Interview - The Science of Total Training

Power Training Exercises

Development of elastic strength through the use of plyometrics

ExRx Exercise & Muscle Directory



Other notes: Make sure you're still working out you're abs as well. A lot of these exercises work your core immensely already but seated weight decline situps, russian twists, saxon bends, and leg raises are just an example of some other exercises you can do on your non-lifting days. Make sure you're not doing lots of rolling on heavy deadlift days , and make sure you give yourself enough rest. Some people can do the 3 day split Mon-Wed-Fri and still train, for others its over-training. I know most people won't think anything of this article but hopefully I opened SOME peoples eyes to what strength and power training is all about.
 
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#27 ·
hey wukkadb dont listen to sgtsixpack, he doesn't get what your talkin about when u say compound and powerlifting... so let him have his bicept days and calve days and waste his time.. bodybuilding is only for looks.

but i have a question wukkadb.. i know powerlifting involves bench presses.. but i heard in mma they are pretty pointless.. and i shouldn't do them.. what u think about this?
 
#28 · (Edited)
If u bothered to read the whole thread u will realise Wukkhkhss has only stopped posting because he finally got what I was saying and agrees with me. Makes no sence to train traps on both pull and push day. Added to that traps really are insignificant to both bodybuilding and MMA, so why train them twice? Leading to overtraining?

http://www.mmaforum.com/strength-power-training/10763-biceps-what-2.html#post155923
Look at the date of that post it predates this entire thread. Wukkhkushsh probably learned what a "compound" movement was from me.

As for dissin' me, you are probably a 14 yr old kid so what do I care?

I knew that my post would be provocative, but in the end I decided to post it and Im not having some retard who has probably never been to a gym in his life tell me that "I have wasted 8 years training" and try to make out that he knows whats what. I posted here cause his training method is not the best thing since sliced bread, its got flaws.
 
#29 · (Edited)
SgtSixpack said:
If u bothered to read the whole thread u will realise Wukkhkhss has only stopped posting because he finally got what I was saying and agrees with me. Makes no sence to train traps on both pull and push day. Added to that traps really are insignificant to both bodybuilding and MMA, so why train them twice? Leading to overtraining?

http://www.mmaforum.com/strength-power-training/10763-biceps-what-2.html#post155923
Look at the date of that post it predates this entire thread. Wukkhkushsh probably learned what a "compound" movement was from me.

As for dissin' me, you are probably a 14 yr old kid so what do I care?

I knew that my post would be provocative, but in the end I decided to post it and Im not having some retard who has probably never been to a gym in his life tell me that "I have wasted 8 years training" and try to make out that he knows whats what. I posted here cause his training method is not the best thing since sliced bread, its got flaws.
What are my flaws? Also, how did that link prove anything? And, for the record, I NEVER do shrugs, so don't use that one against me.

ricefarmer said:
hey wukkadb dont listen to sgtsixpack, he doesn't get what your talkin about when u say compound and powerlifting... so let him have his bicept days and calve days and waste his time.. bodybuilding is only for looks.

but i have a question wukkadb.. i know powerlifting involves bench presses.. but i heard in mma they are pretty pointless.. and i shouldn't do them.. what u think about this?
Thanks for the love ricefarmer. As far as benching goes, I'm a little unsure about it. I still bench press every press day, but it is one of my worst lifts. I think that dumbell bench presses definitely have benefit to MMA though, as well as incline and decline. Close grip bench presses are also good to throw in.
 
#30 ·
wukkadb said:
What are my flaws? Also, how did that link prove anything? And, for the record, I NEVER do shrugs, so don't use that one against me.
Ive got nothing against you. If u had posted, hey guys this is my routine and what do u think? I would have possibly given my advice and left it at that.

What you have done is set out a blueprint for everyone to follow, you are passing on what I perceive as some bad habits. Added to that you take you advice from a 21yr old who doesnt look all that impressive and has only been training for 2 years in weights.

You can do a fully bodybuilding program with 3 days a week, then why do a program which is not a total body workout; and judging from watching youtube injury prone? Only injurys Ive had is I pulled my back twice in 8 years of training (whilst doing squats), thats a pretty good ratio if u ask me.

If u cant do at least 4 reps its not bodybuilding (max 15 reps).
 
#31 ·
SgtSixpack said:
Ive got nothing against you. If u had posted, hey guys this is my routine and what do u think? I would have possibly given my advice and left it at that.

What you have done is set out a blueprint for everyone to follow, you are passing on what I perceive as some bad habits. Added to that you take you advice from a 21yr old who doesnt look all that impressive and has only been training for 2 years in weights.

You can do a fully bodybuilding program with 3 days a week, then why do a program which is not a total body workout; and judging from watching youtube injury prone? Only injurys Ive had is I pulled my back twice in 8 years of training (whilst doing squats), thats a pretty good ratio if u ask me.

If u cant do at least 4 reps its not bodybuilding (max 15 reps).
Thank you :) I'm not doing "bodybuilding", I'm training to get STRONGER and be more POWERFUL. Bodybuilding doesn't transition into MMA very well, I'm sorry.
 
#33 ·
SgtSixpack said:
Injury dont translate well into MMA either, your selective reading doesnt allow full comprehension.

Must /unsubscribe.
Ok, well when I get injured doing free range motions while youre stuck doing isolation exercises, ill let you know.
 
#34 ·
yes sixpack.. all the crap i read from u, what ur talking about is bodybuilding, isolated movement just to show off every fiber in ur body, powerlifting is different its mostly compound movements, and the main lifts are bench, squat, and deadlifts.. all of these give u pure power.. if u dont know anything about it i suggest u google it b4 u argue with wukk.

seriously all ur talking about is bodybuilding.. and the max ur suppose to do is 6-8.. and for pro's its 1 rep of max but thats hardcore.
 
#36 ·
everything wukkabd said is right you have more chance of being injured due to bodybuilding(musle being isolated and not learning to work together)than when performing heavy compund lifts(teaching your body to work as a unit)as long as proper technique is used.i follow a program very similar to the one he recommended and have seen better power ,strength and even musular gains than my old bodybuilder split
 
#37 ·
maxtheripper said:
everything wukkabd said is right you have more chance of being injured due to bodybuilding(musle being isolated and not learning to work together)than when performing heavy compund lifts(teaching your body to work as a unit)as long as proper technique is used.i follow a program very similar to the one he recommended and have seen better power ,strength and even musular gains than my old bodybuilder split
thank you sir;)
 
#38 ·
Very well made post repped :thumbsup:
i was actually planning on making a post asking for a routine for strength building.
 
#39 ·
Interesting post. My approach is similarish to yours, although I am focussing on muscle stamina first and strength second.

I also don't do isolated exercises. I break exercises into 'pulling towards me horizontally', 'pushing away from me horizontally', 'pulling down towards my head' and 'pushing up away from my head'. In those categories I try to take exercises that have a long motion and use as much of the body as possible. I use bars and dumbells, and I try to stand (sometimes with an unstable base).

Although stamina is my main objective I have got much, much stronger since I started organizing it like this.
 
#40 ·
I.P.Freely said:
Interesting post. My approach is similarish to yours, although I am focussing on muscle stamina first and strength second.

I also don't do isolated exercises. I break exercises into 'pulling towards me horizontally', 'pushing away from me horizontally', 'pulling down towards my head' and 'pushing up away from my head'. In those categories I try to take exercises that have a long motion and use as much of the body as possible. I use bars and dumbells, and I try to stand (sometimes with an unstable base).

Although stamina is my main objective I have got much, much stronger since I started organizing it like this.
For sure for sure. I put strength 1st but I still train my endurance and cardio as well :)
 
#41 ·
wukkadb said:
First and foremost, this thread was created by me to share information and hopefully enlighten some souls, please don't take it personally like I'm shoving it down your throat. You can disagree if you want but all of my thread is backed by evidence/links.

I feel the need to enlighten the many who are unaware of how to properly train for STRENGTH and POWER in regards to MMA/Martial Arts. It seems that a lot of people are stuck in the bodybuilding type routines, which is fine and dandy if you're into bodybuilding, but it doesn't transition or apply very well to martial arts. First off, let me point out some of the essential basics:

#1) You should not ever have a day where you are working out your biceps (example: "Oh yeah, today is biceps and triceps!" <--No.)
#2) Isolation exercises are BAD!!
#3) Looking big/cut does not equal being strong
#4) If you're doing crunches to get a 6-pack, you're gay
#5) You NEED to be doing squats, overhead presses, deadlifts, dips, and pull-ups.
#6) No more calf raises, leg extensions, or hamstring curls.

Now, here are a couple EXAMPLES of ways to split up your workout (these routines are primarily aimed at getting STRONGER, having a better core, and developing your posterior chain)

Example 1: 3 day Split
This is the current split I do, and is broken into a PULL day, a PRESS day, and a SQUAT day.

example Pull Day:
Deadlifts: 5x5
*5x5 means doing 5 sets of 5 reps, but increasing the weight each time.

Wide grip pullups: BWx3x5
*Work your way up with these then start adding weight onto your pullups

Bent Over Rows:
135x3x5

Some other excercises you can do on your pull day are: shrugs, reverse curls, hammer curls, wrist curls, and chin ups.

example Press Day:

Bench Press:5x5

Skullcrushers:65x1x10
75x1x8
85x1x5
95x1x3

Overhead Press:95x1x8
125x1x4
135x1x2
125x1x4

Dips:BWx3x10
*Just like pull-ups, you can use the weight belt for dips as you get stronger

Other exercises you can use for press day: decline DB bench, incline DB bench, push press, seated weighted bench dips

example Squat Day:
AssToGround(ATG) Squats:5x5

Front Squats:135x1x8
185x1x6
205x1x3
185x1x5

Overhead Squats:95x2x8
115x1x5

Dumbell snatches:55x2x6

other exercises you can do on squat day: lunges, later lunges, zercher squats, parallel squats, barbell snatches


Example 2: 2 day split

Day one:
Deadlift:5x5

Overhead press:5x5

Weighted pullup/chinup:same as before

Day two:
Squat:5x5

Benchpress:5x5

Bent over row:same as before

**All of these numbers are made up and imaginary, but are just giving you an example of what kind of weight incriments/reps you should be doing. Also, you can mixup using the 5x5 on squats,deadlifts,bench press. Another good way to do those exercises is start light, do a set of 10, then do 2-3 more sets of heavy weights with reps under 5. You can also work your way up in a pyramid type pattern, such as 4 sets of 8,6,4,2, with the weight increasing each set.


Other helpful links:

DeFranco's Training - Westside for Skinny Bastards A modified lifting program for "Hardgainers"

Eclipse Gym :: View topic - Bill Starr 5x5 Primer - How to create your own 5x5 program

Super Squats 20 Rep Squat Routine

RossTraining - Articles

Mixed Martial Arts Training Interview - The Science of Total Training

Power Training Exercises

Development of elastic strength through the use of plyometrics

ExRx Exercise & Muscle Directory



Other notes: Make sure you're still working out you're abs as well. A lot of these exercises work your core immensely already but seated weight decline situps, russian twists, saxon bends, and leg raises are just an example of some other exercises you can do on your non-lifting days. Make sure you're not doing lots of rolling on heavy deadlift days , and make sure you give yourself enough rest. Some people can do the 3 day split Mon-Wed-Fri and still train, for others its over-training. I know most people won't think anything of this article but hopefully I opened SOME peoples eyes to what strength and power training is all about.

p.s. bodybuilding.com=bad
really cool man:thumbsup: ...I'm gonna try it out and see if it works out for me.
 
#48 ·
im a 16 year old wrestler, wats a good workout to compliment wrestling practice
Do lots of compound lifts and make sure you have a good form. Some great lifts I would suggest would be: deadlifts, squats, cleans, dips, pull ups, rows, and military presses. A good 3 day split would go as following:

Day One:
Deadlifts - 5x5
Rows - 3x5
Pull ups - 3x5

Day two:
Military press - 5x5
Cleans - 3x5
Dips - 3x10

Day Three:
Squats - 5x5
Front squats - 3x5
Lunges - 3x10

Make sure you're using correct form when you start lifting, don't worry about how much weight your using. Once you get your form down correctly though, focus on making gains.
 
#49 ·
I didn't feel like making a new thread so I'm just going to ask here. I watched some videos of people doing zercher deadlifts since I was curious as how one would do it without hurting their back. But it seems like every person I watch, their backs become extremely rounded as they go up. How can this lift be good for your back? Were they just doing it wrong?

I've always loved zercher squats but I never knew a zercher DL existed.
 
#50 ·
Zercher deads are a very cool lift, but I think the added stress on the hamstrings instead of the back is the main reason why the back is not injured while rounding even though it would be bad if it was a conventional deadlift. Here's some info on it I came across:
For the Zercher deadlift the bar begins much lower - on the ground if possible, or at the very least on the lowest pins of a rack. Taking a wide stance, the lifter’s arms are hooked beneath the bar in the same way as in the squat. The hips are lowered, and then the lifter raises the back and straightens the legs simultaneously. As the body’s centre of mass has been shifted forward by holding the bar in this unusual way, much more stress is placed on the hamstrings than in a traditional deadlift; which focusses on the spinal erectors.
Source:
http://www.straighttothebar.com/2005/04/zercher_squat.html

Once my deadlift starts plateuing I'm going to start z-deading every week because I actually know someone who gained like 40 pounds on their deadlift just from focusing on z-deads for a while
 
#51 ·
Yo, i dunno why everyone hatin on sgt.sixpack lol. seriously he was only making the point about the traps being used during the shoulder excercise.
Other than that i agree that compound excercises are better for MMA, it doesnt make the muscles themselves stronger though, as it appears wukka is trying to state. It does, however produce a stronger athlete, simply because the muscles are used to working together, they work together effectively with no weak links. Even the shaolin knew this hundreds of years ago, notice all their training is compound excercises.

ps.love that avatar u got wukka :D:D, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG!
 
#52 ·
This seemed like the place to ask so- I was just wondering what are good compliments to doing pull ups that improve those muscles? I struggle greatly with them and I can do maybe 5 and I do them every other I aim for 3 sets of 5 and I dont think Ive ever gotten there. I appreciate any advice I can get.
 
#53 ·
Bent over rows, deadlifts, chin ups. 3 sets of 5 is not that bad though, so just keep doing pull ups and they will definitely come. Also try doing something like 8 sets of 2 reps but doing the 2 reps completely without any cheating and from a dead hang
 
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