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Training Philosophy?

5K views 50 replies 7 participants last post by  The Don 
#1 ·
I have kind of a different philosophy, but that's because i am a small venue fighter. I think that to be best prepared for a fight you have to work to improve yourself before worrying about your opponent. I fight all the time, so this means that i don't have to focus on any one opponent on my schedule. I was wondering what everyone elses ideas were.
 
#27 ·
TKD does not train for or against ground fighting just look at how they train, as I have stated to many TKD is great for learning proper form, it has no practical application, Tang Soo Do on the other hand while it does lack ground fighting skills, does have alot of practicl application as far as striking is concerned
 
#28 ·
The Don said:
TKD does not train for or against ground fighting just look at how they train, as I have stated to many TKD is great for learning proper form, it has no practical application, Tang Soo Do on the other hand while it does lack ground fighting skills, does have alot of practicl application as far as striking is concerned
But the fact is, if you're studying a striking system and you have half a brain you should be able to figure out that if I'm charging at you, you need to stop me.

I ran straight threw my opponent and tossed him on the ground, proceeding to crush his face with my elbows. That shouldn't be that hard.

There is no sustitute for experience, and you can't enough experience to be considered "good" in a few years. "Good" is all relative, but it you can't defend yourself against someone charging straight at you than you shouldn't brag about your black belt and offer to fight a grappler with half a dozen different martial arts.

I think more martial arts should teach common sense, when you can brag and when you can shut your mouth.
 
#29 ·
trus the training though in most TKD schools is so undynamic that the students are not taught to think just do, and if they can do the forms correctly they get promoted, kinda sad but then again TKD was not developed to be a fighting art as many think, it was developed as an activity for unathletic school children to get them active
 
#30 ·
The Don said:
trus the training though in most TKD schools is so undynamic that the students are not taught to think just do, and if they can do the forms correctly they get promoted, kinda sad but then again TKD was not developed to be a fighting art as many think, it was developed as an activity for unathletic school children to get them active
That's a great explanation for TKD. You're right too, it's completely static and there's no spontaniety to it at all. At least in BJJ, JJJ, Aikido and Kempo (including but not limited to) you learn how to improvise self defense.

There is no right way to do it wrong, there is no wrong way to do it right. There is only what works and what gets you punched in the face.
 
#31 ·
exactly, I have told people who were in TKD stay a year or two and just look at is as a prep class for your real training one advantage it will give them is proper form and balance the balance being a major issue other then that forget everything else you learn, so many schools lie to students claiming it is some hundred years old art, the inventor until recently was living in Canada, not sure if he is still alive or has since passed he was like in upper 80's last I heard, he was also a Tang Soo Do master
 
#32 ·
The Don said:
exactly, I have told people who were in TKD stay a year or two and just look at is as a prep class for your real training one advantage it will give them is proper form and balance the balance being a major issue other then that forget everything else you learn, so many schools lie to students claiming it is some hundred years old art, the inventor until recently was living in Canada, not sure if he is still alive or has since passed he was like in upper 80's last I heard, he was also a Tang Soo Do master
TKD is kind of like Judo for the Koreans. It was derived from an older MA and then modernized to become a "Nationalized Art" ready to be taught to everyone. Sport TKD is almost completely not valid in any sort of free-form fight. The reason why I say almost is that a good swift kick (like a sliding side kick) can be a great way to enter a fight, if not end it. But once it's on the ground, there isn't much that sport TKD will do for you.

Funny thing about that is that I remember a few years back one of my "associates" was taking TKD. I went to watch one of his classes, and there was a much broader emphasis on hand techniques (even Chi Sao drills), locks and throws than I remembered when I took it in the 3rd grade. I've seen a trend where a lot of the more traditional Martial Arts are incorporating grappling more and more.

Well we all know who to thank for that.
 
#34 ·
The Don said:
yea I certianly agree with that, now in your thoughts who do we have to thank for grappling being taught?
Don, I don't want to give myself to much credit, but it really has a lot to do with guys like me who kick the crap out of TKD guys with takedowns, groundnpound and submissions. It's the same thing that the Gracie's showed at the first UFCs, if it can kick you ass, you'd better learn it.

It comes from an old saying I learned when I first started studying BJJ, "Become a part of the monster or be destroyed by it."

An example of the futility of TKD can be seen in this season of TUF, Danny (4th Degree Blackbelt in TKD) against Ed (who has no blackbelts in anything). Ed took down Danny and danny had no idea how to defend himself.

There are way to many problems with a 4 point striking system and having fought TKD fighters I can tell you that there are 2 assets that I know how to use that can end any fight (I'm talking about my elbows).

If a fighter doesn't know how to form and obtain a guard from the ground then it's way to easy just to pound the hell out of them.
 
#36 ·
The Don said:
OK, Cool, Guess I can fall into that catagorey since I am a grappler myself.
Essentially, this is what we saw in Black Dragon v Royce Gracie at UFC 4 (I think). Royce got Van Clief on the ground and Van Clief held up a good guard, but didn't have any submissions or any training in recovering from a grapple, so he was stuck on the ground until Royce got position and choked him out.
 
#37 ·
The Don said:
yea I certianly agree with that, now in your thoughts who do we have to thank for grappling being taught?
Actually, I was going to credit the UFC and the Gracies for that. That matter aside, once I started rolling on a semi-serious basis myself, I started to realize that I needed a lot of work. Being a much smaller guy than most of my partners, I needed to know that it wasn't enough just to "pull guard." I needed to know how to work in it.

At the very least, if I couldn't finish a fight off my back, I needed to be able to get the hell up and get away. Running away is a part of self-defense also.
 
#39 · (Edited)
The Don said:
don't you mean tactical retreat?
No... I mean RUN AWAY, as in getting the hell out of Dodge. The B-side of a lot of self-defense type courses that a lot of people do not hear about (nor actively look for) is being able to assess bad situations before they happen, and how to safely remove yourself from said situations if they do happen. Self-preservation is what the "fight or flight" reaction is all about. Too many times it's a bad idea to go "mano a mano" with each and every issue you're physically faced with, and running away is always a viable choice. I've been in too many situations where someone just turns the corner and half a dozen of their homies are around to back them up.

Call me a bitch... But I'll be the one without the huge hospital bill; thank you.
 
#40 ·
Onganju said:
Call me a bitch... But I'll be the one without the huge hospital bill; thank you.
I wish I was smart enough to run away. :laugh: If I get into a fight with a big guy I want to fight him more instead of just running away.

I love finishing fights on my back. An armbar or a triangle choke are some of my favorites, but there's also that one I posted on the Favorite Submissions thread, the Leg Crucifix.

The ground is the one place where size matters less and strength and talent matter more. It's "the Iron Dwarf's playground."
 
#41 ·
IronMan said:
I wish I was smart enough to run away. :laugh: If I get into a fight with a big guy I want to fight him more instead of just running away. ... The ground is the one place where size matters less and strength and talent matter more. It's "the Iron Dwarf's playground."
It's not really a Size thing per se. It's more of a numbers issue that I note in my previous post. An A-class fighter can get the shit beat out of them from a group of hoodies if they're outnumbered 4 to 1, unless they're real lucky or they really suck that bad. This is an issue that I keep in mind whenever I'm out, and it's not just a size thing (I'm only 5'4", 180lbs). Now that I'm married, I'm constantly thinking in the back of my mind "If shit happens here, how am I going to keep my wife safe."

It's discretion... The other side of valor that most tough guys dismiss.
 
#42 ·
And that's smart on your part.

You see, I lack this little, but fundamental, thing that we call "common sense." Anyways, I also get overzealous and aggressive.
 
#43 ·
Onganju said:
It's not really a Size thing per se. It's more of a numbers issue that I note in my previous post. An A-class fighter can get the shit beat out of them from a group of hoodies if they're outnumbered 4 to 1, unless they're real lucky or they really suck that bad. This is an issue that I keep in mind whenever I'm out, and it's not just a size thing (I'm only 5'4", 180lbs). Now that I'm married, I'm constantly thinking in the back of my mind "If shit happens here, how am I going to keep my wife safe."

It's discretion... The other side of valor that most tough guys dismiss.

yea I can agree there, I am getting married soon we have 3 kids, she's going to school so right now I am the sole income earner until she finishs so if something happened to me in the mean time her and hte kids would be screwed and normaly if oyur out numbered in a fight since they are feeling cocky they may even pull a weapon of some sought if you were to drop one or 2 of them. Its not like the movies unless you are alot better prepared and more then likely numbers will not allow you to pull of things Jackie chan and Steven segal do, remember those are scripts. Now one or two attackers 3 you have a chance. I got lucky once cause they were all drunkand attacked basicly one at a time. rarely hapens in the real worled your usually just overwhelmed by the numbers and beat while on the ground, a submission i not going to do you any good. so the best defense against all that is just not to get into that situation.
 
#44 ·
I love drunks because I can't drink so I get to stay sober and beat the pulp out of them. They have a much higher pain tolerance, but you know that they're going to feel it in the morning.

You have to stay standing if you're fighting alot of guys, because you can't focus on a single submission or groundnpound.
 
#45 ·
yea thats the one thing to remember if your ever fighting someone who is drunk or on drugs. what would drop a normal guy and have them crying in pain someone in an altered state might not even flich, true the damage is done thier bodies just do not know it making that much more dangerous espically since alot of narcotics will cause the bodies adrenal glad to kick into over time, that 150 pound guy who is 5'10 might suddently hit like tyson in his prime and get hit by a moving car break a leg and keep coming after you.
 
#46 ·
I don't think that the drinking makes them hit harder, but I haven't done the "before and after" test yet. That'd be a fun one.

I do know for sure that the pain tolerance of a drunk guy is way higher than it should be and I know that some of the guys that I've fought when they were drunk took a beating that they might not have regretted in the moment, but that they definitely regretted afterwards.
 
#47 ·
I never said it improved thier reflexes which are considerbly slower giving a sober fighter even an OK one a major advantage. though most of what I said before applies more to narcotics in general Alchol effects people with too many differences to back up my previous statement i have seen people turn into blubbering babies after a few drinks so you never know.
 
#48 ·
The Don said:
I never said it improved thier reflexes which are considerbly slower giving a sober fighter even an OK one a major advantage. though most of what I said before applies more to narcotics in general Alchol effects people with too many differences to back up my previous statement i have seen people turn into blubbering babies after a few drinks so you never know.
Yeah, alcohol is supposed to enhance whatever mood you are in when you're drinking. I guess if you're looking for a fight then you are going to fight harder and if you're depressed you just get more depressed.

Like I said, I'm a minor.
 
#50 ·
I have a buddy of mine that is quite the drinker, he is also very willing to roll with me whenever the (many times impromptu) chance comes about. Well, there was one night when we were out and he had a bit to drink (he was betting that he could out drink our boss at the time), well he starts to mess around. I wasn't in the mood, and I tell him "Dude, you don't want to get int othis right now. I could seriously hurt you."

Well, to make the long story short, he ends up trying to throw a punch at me while he was sitting on my boss' couch. He's so slow at this point that all I do is catch his arm and bar it across the top of the couch. Well, this catches the attention of EVERYONE around. Instead of clocking him in the chin or choking him out (because I really felt like doin that), I start jabbing him in the shoulder, arm and neck with my fingers while telling him, "DUDE... I told you to quit that shit!"

Well, he calmed down a bit. Sure it kind of soured his mood for the rest of the night, but at least I didn't have to worry about him swinging on me.
 
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