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Rate Tiger Woods and Golf. Choose the two options that reflect your opinion.

Tiger Woods Thread

4K views 35 replies 14 participants last post by  MLS 
#1 ·
This thread replaces the Tiger Woods discussion that emerged recently.
I was alarmed to discover that many forum users do not view Tiger Woods as an elite athlete or even consider golf a sport.
What is your opinion?
 
#2 ·
I think Tiger is an elite athlete and that golf is a sport. My problem was with people saying that he has the greatest mental toughness in sports today. How can he be considered for that title when he has never won from behind in the final round of a major.
 
#3 ·
You say that like it's easy to do. He hasn't yet but I'm sure he will at some stage in his career.
There are so many other stats that positively support his mental toughness. 43 - 3 when leading into final day of tournaments. 13 - 0 when at least tied for lead after 54 holes in Majors. He has been heralded as "the greatest closer in history" by multiple golf experts.
 
#4 ·
How can he be the greatest if he can't make a comeback? Your right he may eventually make a comeback but the fact of the matter is he hasn't yet. Every athlete that is considered great in other sports has had to have some type of comeback. You have to be good in the clutch and Tiger needs to prove that he can gets past this block that he has. Thats like a fighter not being able to comeback to win a fight in the last round after he lost the first two rounds.
 
#6 ·
If we are judging elite athlete's on what they make than Barry Zito has got to be near the top. He has a contract worth $126 million and an $18 million option for 2014, which would bring his contract to $137 million. He is getting about $18 million a year out of this contract yet heis 0-8 this season and had a horrible season last year. The Giants even put him in the bullpen because of how bad he has been.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Tiger Woods is an elite athlete and Golf is a sport. Are all golfers elite athletes though? Hell no.

Tiger Woods works his butt off in the gym, can lift a ton, runs daily. The man is an athlete, but only because he has made himself one. Golf did not make him an athlete because its not an incredibly rigorous sport. However, it takes skill and smarts and of course its a sport.

MLS said:
How can he be the greatest if he can't make a comeback? Your right he may eventually make a comeback but the fact of the matter is he hasn't yet. Every athlete that is considered great in other sports has had to have some type of comeback. You have to be good in the clutch and Tiger needs to prove that he can gets past this block that he has. Thats like a fighter not being able to comeback to win a fight in the last round after he lost the first two rounds.
To be fair, he hasn't been in the position to make a Sunday comeback more than 5 times. He's usually either running away with the trophy already or is more than 5 shots back. Those times he has been within striking distance, he hasn't got it done, but he has never lost ground. Most of the time, it comes down to whoever is in the lead plays a great round of golf on Sunday and he can't make it up.

I agree that a comeback win in a Major will cap off his career, but the dude is already the best without it.
 
#11 ·
Tiger Woods is an elite athlete and Golf is a sport. Are all golfers elite athletes though? Hell no.
Agreed.


Tiger is definitely an elite athlete and I did vote for Golf being a sport- it may not require super athletic skills(see John Daly puffin' and drinkin') or an athletic physique(see Phil Mickelson's glorious man-boobs) but the mental toughness, practice of long hours honing different shots with different clubs and the maintenance of your body to remain strong and flexible. A lot of golfers did not work out until Tiger came onto the scene and his driving length forced them to adapt their game(and physical abilities) to try and catch up with him.

You can also see Tiger's development and changed swing- back when he first entered the PGA the announcers would talk about his crazy body torque on his drives, knowing that over time that would put to much stress on his low back and knees he adapted his swing. Now it's tighter and puts less stress on his body. Tiger is definitely an elite athlete.
 
#9 ·
Yes golf is a sport, its a very technical sport. It is not as physically demanding as most sports but it makes up for that with having the technical aspect. Tiger Woods is an elite athlete. He is NOT the toughest athlete. He is a rich kid who has played golf his whole life, that is not tough to me. To me Roger Huerta is tough, horrible childhood, overcame that and is finishing college and shows an extreme amount of heart in every fight. I just dont see how you can say Tiger Woods is so tough, even when you take into consideration mental toughness(which woods has) he isnt number one.
 
#21 ·
YHe is a rich kid who has played golf his whole life, that is not tough to me. To me Roger Huerta is tough, horrible childhood, overcame that and is finishing college and shows an extreme amount of heart in every fight.
So, can anyone be elite if they are unfortunate enough to be raised in a good environment? I don't see how if you are comparing what two adults are like now, there childhood affects it.
 
#10 ·
Tiger is an elite athlete yes but i disagree that golf is a sport per se. I do however believe it takes great skill to be very good at it and it takes a lot of determination and what have you but i just have never been able to call it a sport. A game sure, an activity sure but sport no.
 
#15 ·
This thread is a lot different from the one that was being discussed before. The topic before was about Tiger being the TOUGHEST athlete. That's a lot different then being an ELITE athlete.

Do I think he's an elite athlete, yes. And I don't blame you for wording it the way you did in this thread. You're going to get a lot more positive responses.

Do I think he's the toughest athlete??? Not in a million years. I believe he's a VERY focused man that has shown the ability to use the fine muscle movements over and over with a smaller percentage of mistakes then most other golfers. This doesn't make him the toughest.

If you want to have the discussion of him being and elite athlete, by all means do. But I for one, don't think that has anything to do with the conversation that got the topic started.
 
#18 ·
This thread is a lot different from the one that was being discussed before. The topic before was about Tiger being the TOUGHEST athlete. That's a lot different then being an ELITE athlete.
I can't get to the thread now because it is closed, but I believe it was exactly what the argument was. Alex_DeLarge began with a diatribe of Tiger Woods and golf being a professional sport, after Tiger was #2 (?) on ESPN's list of toughest athletes. "Toughness" was only brought up to refer to his mental toughness. Golf was then bashed as a sport and Tiger as an athlete. The problem RushFan came accross (IMO) was posts such as "It isn't a sport if after you hit the ball you don't run to it - you get in a cart" or "how much athletic talent does it take to hit a ball with a stick four feet?"

I don't remember the wording being along the lines of "Tiger Woods is one of the toughest athletes" in terms of enduring physical stress. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, but IMO the wording of this post is pretty much exactly what he was debating on the last thread. As I recall, one of the final posts was from a mod states, "if you guys want to debate on whether or not Tiger Woods is an athlete, START A THREAD, otherwise this thread is about fighters that have not been KO'd before."

PS - My opinion is such: Tiger Woods is an ELITE athlete and golf is a sport. :thumbsup:

An athlete is someone who is athletic, someone who shows incredible general physical prowess. That is to say: a combination of strength, speed, agility, coordination and skill in their sport.
I think Tiger Woods is a perfect example of such.

A real elite athlete is someone who can play their sport, but also has the physical conditioning and skills to play another sport, not on the same level, but very, very well.

If you took Tiger of the golf course he might be a guy in very good shape (in fact, he is a guy in very good shape), but he wouldn't be able to move like a pro in another sport. He can't run a 40 like an elite athlete, he can't hit the bench like an elite athlete and he can't thread the needle like an elite athlete. That's my criteria.
I have a problem with this in that if you take Federer off the court, I don't think he will compete in other sports. Is he not an elite athlete? If you take Crosby or Ovechkin off the ice, their 40s might not be quite that fast for they are using different muscles of their legs. Are they not elite? Ali probably wouldn't have run that quick of a 40...or Lenox Lewis. Wayne Gretzky, Kaka, Ronaldo, etc, I'm not sure if any of them would be able to dominate other sports. Does that make them less of elite athletes? I don't think so. Michael Jordan was able to almost go pro at baseball and Deon Sanders and Bo Jackson played two sports professionally, while Tom Glavine was drafted by the MLB and NHL. IMO that makes them more ATHLETIC, but not more of an elite athlete.

When you not only master, but dominate your discipline that is known to be considered a "sport" - IMO you are an elite athlete. Tiger Woods has done it like few else in professional sports have.
 
#29 ·
Fair enough, my man. Just a few things…

My point was that that is how I define athleticism, the ability to perform athletic tasks and do them well.
Webster's definition of the word athlete:
a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina.
I just feel Tiger fits the mold here.

You're entitled to your opinion, I'd just like to see evidence of his athleticism beyond just his skill as a golfer.
It's tough to find information on his regime, but I've read of him benching close to 300 lbs, running distances of 3 miles and 7 miles on given days, and working out in the gym quite a bit. I'll see if I can find some more information related to these statements.

Would Clay's skills translate to other sports? [Yes].
Would it be fair to say that Tiger's superior hand-eye coordination could translate in the MLB if given the same time and effort?

And, by the way, of the four events I mentioned that I'd like to test woods on (bench, high jump, weave and spring), Bryan wins three and Garnett wins one. So, yes, I think Bryan is a better athlete than Kevin Garnett.
Yep, I said so myself too!

There are some great, top tier baseball players that are not elite athletes. There are others that are.
I agree, but I think it works the exact same for golf.

Edit: See GMW's post below for workout regime information.
 
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#30 ·
#16 ·
As the only person to say "Tiger Woods is not an elite athlete," let me explain what I mean by athlete.

An athlete is someone who is athletic, someone who shows incredible general physical prowess. That is to say: a combination of strength, speed, agility, coordination and skill in their sport.

A real elite athlete is someone who can play their sport, but also has the physical conditioning and skills to play another sport, not on the same level, but very, very well.

Reggie Bush is an elite athlete, because if he played basketball, he could dunk and he could move and his athleticism would remain consistent.

If you took Tiger of the golf course he might be a guy in very good shape (in fact, he is a guy in very good shape), but he wouldn't be able to move like a pro in another sport. He can't run a 40 like an elite athlete, he can't hit the bench like an elite athlete and he can't thread the needle like an elite athlete. That's my criteria.

Is Tiger a great sportsman, sure. I have no problem with people saying he's one of the greatest sportsmen of all time, but when you start calling him an athlete, you are saying that he is athletically comparable to guys like Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali and that's just not true.
 
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#19 ·
A real elite athlete is someone who can play their sport, but also has the physical conditioning and skills to play another sport, not on the same level, but very, very well.

Reggie Bush is an elite athlete, because if he played basketball, he could dunk and he could move and his athleticism would remain consistent.
I don't know if I agree with this. Hockey players are some of the toughest and best conditioned athletes in the world but god knows they would not be able to play basketball worth shit. Golfing on the other hand.. no problem.

Tiger Woods is an elite athlete. I am confident in saying if you asked the top 10 basketball, baseball, football and hockey players if he was an athlete 80-90% would agree.

My bad ALLINGSP, I didn't read your post but we had the same thinking. Smart men think exactly alike!
 
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#20 ·
For some reason the definition of "toughness" on this thread derives from the risk to life and limb. Therefore, How could any MMA athlete compare their "toughness" to a free style mountain climber or a sky diver?
I repeat, the debate is about "Mental Toughness". Almost every MMA athlete rides a wave of euphoria throughout an MMA bout. This is a primary attraction to the sport for many "adrenaline junkies". I don't want to have to say this but, For most MMA practitioners there is very little mental aspect to their fighting style. They enter the octagon to enact certain trained aspects of fighting and can be reassured by the fact they will be relatively unharmed if they fail because a referee will save them. Does that constitute mental toughness?
 
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