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Mir vs. Nog, I never thought about it this way.

7K views 91 replies 40 participants last post by  GKY 
#1 ·
I want to say for the record
1. This is NOT my post, I took it off some guy on Sherdog
2. I still think Nog will viciously murder Mir, but I think it's a good post that deserves some attention.

Frank Mir started his UFC career debuting against a very high level BJJ practitioner in Roberto Traven (Mundial winner and an ADCC champion) Frank Mir who was a purple belt at the time and in only his 1st UFC bout submitted the Black belt in under 2 minutes, very impressive debut, Everyone took notice, even Nog was impressed (He stated it in an interview)

Frank was then pitted against UFC Veteran Pete Williams, Pete who had faced the likes of Kevin Randleman, Semmy Schilt and former UFC HW Champion Ricco Rodriguez had never been submitted in his career, Frank Mir in his 2nd UFC bout submitted him in 46 seconds, with a very IMPRESSIVE shoulder lock (My Favourite submission finish to date)



Frank Mir in his 3rd UFC Bout was then thrown to Ian Freeman, a crafty veteran who held (At that time) a 13-5 record. Ian dedicated the fight to his dad who had just passed away, the fight was held in Ian’s hometown in London England. The fight started and Mir got caught with a right early, Mir to the fight to the ground and went for submission recklessly (A rookie mistake) Ian faught through most of the submission attempts but then got caught in a legit heel hook, He hit mir with an illegal strike and got out of it.



Big John didn’t stop the fight or warn Freeman for god knows what reason, everything went downhill from there for Mir, he gassed out and took some vicious GnP. The fight was stopped at the end of the first. This was Mir’s first loss.

David ‘’Tank’’ Abbot was returning , the UFC hyped him up to the max, they wanted to give him a ‘’gimmi’’ fight before they put him in the title picture, they pitted him up against Frank Mir, thinking Tank would do to Mir what Freeman did.
Frank in again, 46 seconds took Tank down and submitted him with a vicious toe hold, a very big upset at the time and a big win for Mir in only his 6th MMA bout.



Next up for Frank Mir was Wes Sims, Frank took him down strait away and mounted him, went for an armbar but Sims got out, he then began to stomp Mir, Sims was then disqualified.

Mir got a chance for redemption, He completely dominated Sims in the rematch, taking him down, mounting him and going for submissions, 1st round was a 10-7 round if i've ever seen one. Mir then won via Knock out in the 2nd round.



Frank Mir was the put up against the undefeated UFC Heavyweight champion in Tim Sylvia. Tim who seemed unstoppable at the time had a 16-0 record and had big wins over Ricco Rodriguez, Cabbage, Whitehead, Lambert, Gan Magee and Ben Rothwell. Frank Mir was a huge underdog coming into this fight,.
Mir put Sylvia in a armbar in just 40 seconds and snapped his forearm in half, the referee stopped the fight and Frank Mir was crowned UFC Heavyweight champion.



Frank Mir was then involved in a very serious motorcycle accident, the accident caused a break in Mir's femur and tore all the ligaments in his knee. The bone had broken in two places, doctors told Mir he may not be able to walk again, let alone go back to fighting.
Mir was then stripped of the title and a interim Heavyweight champion was crowned in Andrei Arlovski.

Mir who was NO WHERE near 100% returned to the octagon a year after being told he may never walk again. He was put in against a high level BJJ Black belt in Marcio ‘’Pe de Pano’’ Cruz.

The fight started and went straight to the mat, Cruz landed a few strikes that caused a cut on Mir’s face, Referee Herb Dean stopped the fight to check on the cut, Mir told him he couldn’t see out of one eye, Mir showed great heart in continuing and was then stopped as he wasn’t defending himself.

NOTE: Mir was nowhere near ready for this fight; he went against doctors orders because he
needed the money.

Mir then got a gimmie fight in Dan Christison, even though Mir won he didn’t look ‘’impressive’’ he couldn’t train for the fight because of his leg and came into the fight way out of shape.

Mir was then put in against young up and comer in Brandon Vera, Vera who was undefeated at the time caught Mir with a right hook and a Knee, Mir was TKOed in the first round.

NOTE: Mir was still not cleared to fight by the doctors.

Mir then rededicated himself and got into fighting shape, he was also finally cleared by the doctors and was said to be in the best shape of his life.
He returned to the octagon 8 months late and scored a first round Kimura win over Antoni Hardonk.

He then was put in against UFC newcomer Brock lesnar. Brock Lesnar in only his 2nd MMA fight ever was favoured over Mir, Most people doubted Mir and said Brock would beat him (Including most Sherdoggers) Mir submitted Brock within the first minute via a Kneebar.



Frank is now in the best shape of his life, he has a chance to win back something he never lost and to win it back he has to go through one of his idols, he will be in shape and he will make it a fight, I personally can’t wait to see it.
 
#5 ·
the article is trying to point out that mir did poorly after coming back from the accident because he didn't give it time to heal. now that he's recovered he's done much better.

that was a nice find, and proves that not everyone on sherdog is a complete idiot. i still think nogs going to win the fight though. we'll get a competitive first round, and nog will begin to dominate as mir gasses.
 
#6 ·
I cannot believe Mir didn't have medical clearance as the sherdog poster claimed and yet he was still allowed to fight. The big difference between Frank's first fight and Nog is that Nog is a better mma bjj practioner Traven. All the other wins to me are pointless b/c they aren't against top level comp. guys like Fedor, Werdum, Cro Cop, Barnett all guys Nog has fought and beaten with the one glaring blemish being Fedor. The poster is trying to say he is better than he really is but using past fights against crappy fighters, no matter how you spin Nog is the better fighter, bjj buy and champion.
 
#11 ·
I read that and thought 2 things.

#1 This guy is fantastic at making excuses

#2 The UFC HW division really used to suck.

Frank Mir is not a top 10 HW and was never all that good to begin with.

This guy has two wins over guys with crap BJJ and now he's back.
 
#13 ·
I'm just trying to figure out if there will be more or less angst on this board if Mir wins compared to the other upsets we frequently see.

I always laugh when an mmaforum annointed one gets beaten after reading months and months of "XXX has this locked up"
 
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#18 ·
This would IMO be up there with Serra vs GSP.

Forrest vs Shogun I saw ways for Forrest to win not the way he did but ways.

Rashad vs Chuck wasn't that shocking at all.

Mir vs Nogueira would baffle me.
 
#19 ·
I noticed that a lot on this forum compare the fighter's resume and think this is a fool proofed way to predict if someone will defeat the other. That is only one way to help predict. I think that this fight can be taken from a different prospective. With Nog, you know what to expect, he is resilient. With Mir on the other hand, has been able to rise to the level of competion and win decisively when faced with top competition.

I realize that that might not be enought to convince you. For only a Mir victory will. However, my point is that Mir is that rookie (that most of you would look at that has never really proven himself) that has found a way to victory.

Well I for one can recognize consistency in a champion. A person that rises to the competion.
 
#21 ·
Personally Aaronyman I see no way in hell Mir can win.

Mir hasn't had a good win since he beat Sylvia that was a long time ago.

I can't see Mir outstriking Nogueira, I can't see Mir outgrappling Nogueira on top or on the bottom, and I can't see him submitting Nogueira. I honestly don't understand how he could win I haven't looked at a main event like this since GSP vs Serra.
 
#23 ·
well than you could have put fitch vs. gsp in that category too....gsp had better striking, wrestling, and better mma grappling....

i could see mir don't well against Nog if he's on top...not sure how he'll get it there, as his wrestling sucks and his cardio is horrific....but that is def a position that i think he survive and win rounds in....and his bottom game is explosive....will he catch nog? not likely, but he can...Nog has almost been submitted by Barnett by a legbar, and Mir is very good at attacking the legs w/ submissions...
 
#22 ·
so Mir is in shape now? he better hide that belly, it might prevent him from getting those legs up.

Mir has strength on his submissions, no doubt about that. But is he in shape? Well according to what i last saw of him on TV, he certainly doesnt look like a guy who is going to fight in a few months.. that treadmill better be dusted off, cuz he will need it..

But obviously, as usual, the fight is not a locked in fight like so many like to believe.. I personally think Nog will beat him, but i wouldnt bet my house on it either. And i wouldnt bet it would be a KO or submission either.
 
#24 ·
Yea but IMO it was possible for Fitch to keep it standing and beat GSP.

I didn't think he would but it was possible.

I don't see Mir submitting Nogueira I don't think his submission skills are better then Barnett or even close.
 
#26 ·
The only times I've ever seen Nog look vulnerable were against Sylvia (he came back and won), against Mirko (he came back and won), and against Fedor (Fedor was unable to finish him). Let's analyze these situations. Tim and Mirko both out-struck Nog and were able to brutalize him in the stand-up. But with some phenomenal heart, determination, and jui-jitsu skills, Nog was able to persevere and come back with an impressive win. With Fedor, Nog was simply out-classed. It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch Nog be basically dominated the whole fight.

But then we have a guy like Frank Mir. What does he have to offer that can beat Nog? He has some great jui-jitsu, but when has Nog ever looked vulnerable in jui-jitsu? Against Ricco in ADCC back in 2000 (I think)? That wasn't even in MMA. Nog might not have the best pure jitz, but he has quite possibly the best MMA translated jitz. And then we have the stand-up. If you've watched Mir's fights, I think you'd agree with me if I said his stand-up is sub-par at best. Nog at least has some polished boxing. Nog would most likely out-strike him. Then what about conditioning? Mir has gassed before and the only times I ever say "Hey, Frank Mir looked really impressive" are when he scores a quick finish win. Nog has gone the distance with the best in the world and come out on top many times. What factors are left that people can make outrageous claims of Mir winning this fight?

Now, don't get me wrong. I always enjoy a good underdog win. Like with Serra over GSP. I was on the ground laughing. But with GSP, I feel he was still premature. His most impressive fight was his destruction of Matt Hughes at UFC 65. He was nowhere near the monster then that he is now. So it was at least understandable that Serra stood a chance. I believed in Serra and I laughed at it afterward. But with Nog, we all know what he's capable of. With Mir, we all know how his fights usually end up. But sure, anything can happen. But let's get real here. How does anyone expect Mir to win? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm just curious as to how Mir is expected to win by some. It's baffling to me.
 
#28 ·
I don't understand you guys. Yea Nog will prolly win BUT....

You guys saying you can't see how Mir could possibly beat him on the ground. How do you even know? Everyone Mir beat on the ground was in less than a minute. Who else does that? Nogueira usually has to wait till his opponent is wore the **** out before he submits them.

Plus, I hate when people say Mir hasn't had a big win in years. Why does that matter? That doesn't have any effect on the outcome of any future fight.
 
#30 ·
The ground game had nothing to do with either of those losses though. He got rocked on his feet both times and got finished with strikes, and was clearly not ready to fight Cruz. Excuse or not that was a completely different fighter that night, you can't argue that because it was a year after his accident, not a year after his recovery, but his actual near fatal accident. And even if what your saying was true it still wouldn't matter. It only takes one win to change that. And the win is not gonna influenced at all by the fact that he has yet to beat a big name since Sylvia.

I dunno, I think it would make sense to say, if it goes past the first round, chances are Nog is gonna win. But that first round is gonna be all Frank, possibly even the 2nd if he's in shape for once, and he has proven many times now he can end a fight extremely quick and has really unorthadox and STRONG submissions.

I'd just be a lot more cautious about counting any fighter out based on things that don't even affect the outcome of a fight. That's just me though. Too many crazy upsets happening for me to keep doing that. Forrest didn't have any big wins for a while before facing Shogun. Now he's beaten Shogun AND Rampage in a row and holds the belt.
 
#31 ·
See to me it does matter because I keep hearing he's back to his old self and all this stuff but I haven't seen it submitting two guys with crappy BJJ doesn't prove he is this top level fighter again.

And honestly I don't think he's that good to begin with. I don't think the best performance from Mir would be enough. His submissions aren't good enough IMO to submit Nogueira, His striking is dreadful, and he isn't a very good wrestler.

Forrest had ways to beat Shogun. Looking at the fight I thought he could outstrike Shogun and win a decision now Shogun ended up gassing and Forrest messed him up on the feet and then took control but I don't see anyway Mir wins this not that he can't but I don't think he will. If he does this for me will go up there with GSP vs Serra.
 
#32 ·
Couldn't agree more. There were actually quite a few who did see Forrest defeat Shogun.

If we say that neither can/will submit the other, whihc is pretty likely, Nog still has better striking, wrestling and cardio (not to speak about mentality). Two questions arises from here:

1. How can Mir win? Chances seem pretty slim, and

2. How the f### can Mir be 200 times the athlete Nog is!?!?
 
#33 ·
Mir has some very interesting and under-utilised subs, and he slaps them on you with real force. "Dynamic" and "unorthadox" are words i would use to describe Mir's ground game....i don't care what anyone says, it's very good and he's a true student of the art.

Serious question, but has Nog fought anyone recently with such a game? If not, it's not out of the question that Mir could just simply surprise Nog with something out of the ordinary. If he does, and applies it with the force we know he can....Nog may be tapping before he has a chance to counter.

I don't think Mir will win this fight either, but i can see at least one way for it to happen.
 
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#35 ·
+Rep to the above 2 posters.

The only way Forrest was gonna win was to stuff his takedowns and outbox him for points and win a close decision. Nobody thought he would choke out Shogun and most didn't even think he would outbox him.

What I'm trying to say is, fighters don't always fight the exact same way. There are so many factors that play into a fight. Using past fights as a "sure-fire" way to predict an outcome to a future fight is impossible. It just simply doesn't work that way, not in this case anyway.

If we were sitting here trying to predict the outcome of say Cheick Kongo vs Nog, then it would make a little more sense to use past fights to try and predict this fight. You could say Cheick clearly has trouble with people who have good ground games and takedowns, in every single fight since he started MMA, and with Nogueira being great at both, yea chances are Nog is gonna win. But with Frank, you just have no idea. It's all speculation and opinion.

That said Nog is clearly the favorite but I just don't see how some of you can still be so lopsided in your predictions. It seems like you woulda learned your lesson by now with all the crazy upsets.
 
#37 ·
Saying that you don't see a way for a certain fighter to win and saying a certain fighter can't win are two completely different things. Every time I imagine how this fight will go down, I see Nog being better in every category. There is no aspect of the game where I can say "Mir has an advantage here". If Frank Mir were to win, I would be absolutely shocked. There would be no words to describe how surprised I'd be. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize the fact that this is a fight and that Mir does have a chance at winning. I'd probably say that chance is less than one percent, but it's there.
 
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