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M-1 Finally gets some publicity just not the kind they hoped for.

3K views 52 replies 25 participants last post by  Godzuki 
#1 ·
Saw this on the front page of AOL today.

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/08/31/mma-fighter-toni-valtonen-has-swastika-white-power-tattoos/?icid=main|main|dl7|link6|http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/08/31/mma-fighter-toni-valtonen-has-swastika-white-power-tattoos/


oni Valtonen is a Finnish mixed martial artist who fights all around the world for Team Finland in the M-1 Challenge, including two fights in the United States this year. A veteran with a 19-9 record, Valtonen hasn't done much in the ring to distinguish himself from any of the thousands of other athletes who compete in MMA.

But he is now attracting attention for something unrelated to his fighting: Valtonen has a swastika tattooed on his shoulder and the words "white pride" tattooed on his back.

Valtonen's tattoos are not exactly a secret -- there are plenty of photographs in which they're readily apparent (see here and here and here for examples) -- but they've been largely ignored by MMA fans and the media, in large part because M-1 has required him to wear a patch over them while he fights.

But the patch over his swastika tattoo came off during a fight that was televised in the United States on HDNet, and the network later acknowledged on its Inside MMA show that it received a complaint from a viewer about it. HDNet Fights CEO Andrew Simon declined to discuss the matter further, saying via e-mail, "We did a segment on Inside MMA this week. Enough said."

Contacted by FanHouse, Valtonen's promotion, M-1 Global, issued a statement saying, "M-1 does not allow Mr. Valtonen to fight with any of these tattoos exposed. Before each of Mr. Valtonen's fights there are patches placed over his tattoos. M-1 regrets the fact that there were still tattoos shown when the patches got loose in the fight. By this statement M-1 wants to state that we do NOT in any way support the views of any individual in particular."

Valtonen could not be reached for comment by FanHouse, but M-1 passed along a statement from him saying, "I had a crazy and rebellious youth, I made some faults in my past and I am not proud of these marks. I regret that I ever had these tattoos made. Nowadays I am a dedicated family man and professional athlete, and I am not involved in any politics whatsoever."

M-1 and Valtonen are doing the right thing, of course, by distancing themselves from those tattoos. But if Valtonen is sincere, he ought to have them removed or permanently tattooed over. Until he does, it's hard to see how M-1 and HDNet can continue having him represent their companies.


 
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#3 ·
The Brown Pride tattoo hardly has the same social stigmas attached to it. White Pride is directly connected with racism while Brown Pride is seen as more of a racial pride symbol. Either way you slice it though when combined with a swastika it doesn't look good for the sport.
 
#6 ·
I'm Jewish (suprise!) and I honsetly would not be offended if I saw him with the swastika. I'd dislike him (and probably try to start something with him in person and get beat up miserably) and hope he got knocked out, but it's his body, why should he not put what he wants on it?

But since it's a professional sport and he represents his company, I can see why they would want him to cover it up.
 
#7 ·
Brown Pride is a known and dangerous gang, even partly being showcased on History Channels "Gangland" when they spoke of the Mexican Mafia prison gang. SO yeah i hafta agree that Brown Pride is pretty offensive. http://askville.amazon.com/teens-co...ed-charged/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=57007147

http://www.knowgangs.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=1144


edit to clarrify, not saying that his tattoos are fine and dandy they are pretty idiotic, yet i do think its stupid that white pride is racist yet brown pride is a sign of pride... considering they are a known hispanic gang.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
If he is ashamed of the tattoos, get them removed. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that he still believes in the ideals attributed to those symbols.

Also, why do people always feel the need to call/write in to complain when their delicate sensibilities are offended? If you don't like it, don't watch. If you don't like the guys beliefs, root for him to lose. America is becoming a country filled with whiners and it drives me nuts.
 
#10 ·
This is stupid. If he had a tat that said black pride, people would think that this was a proud man who was happy to display a symbol of hope for his people. But, it says white pride. What the hell is wrong with that? Is there somthing wrong with being proud of your heritage? Im white, and im happy to be white, does that make me a bad guy? if you think it does then you should kiss my ass. Its ok to be proud of your heritage as long as it doesnt involve white people. In that case you should act like you are responsible for slavery. Be super nice to folks that lean on the crutch of racisim, its possible that someone you are related to wasnt very nice many years ago, so all white folks should allow any ethnic folks to be as racist as they want to be and laugh like some huckleberry idiots at every racist remarks anyone of none caucasian descent makes. Im drunk and the bullshit is to much at the moment. Ban me, i dont care, the truth works against the just.
 
#15 ·
The whole black vs. brown vs. white pride being equal makes sense on the face. However, we have to realize that our society doesn't live in a vaccuum. We aren't just living now, as much as some of us would like to think we are, however, we are very much living in a society and world that has been greatly influenced by our ancestors. Today, we may feel that white pride is just as harmless as brown pride, but the fact is we are living with the consequences that our fellow "white" ancestors made in the past. Brown and Black Pride is not associated with hundred of years of overt racism, oppression, slavery and murder, especially not on a multi-national scale. White Pride is. We all must be conscious of this, because these choices and actions that were so terrible for so many people have made it necessary that we today be sensitive to the way we conduct ourselves.
 
#11 ·
I don't buy the bullshit about him regretting the tattoos. That swastika is tiny, it would be easy to tattoo something over it. The text on his back can't be removed as easily of course, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad without the Nazi flag.

About White Pride vs Black or Brown Pride, yes at a first glance it seems hypocritical to say that they are different, but when I think about it, I can see that there's a difference between a minority or a majority in that sense.

For a minority, "pride" can be seen just as refusing to consider yourself inferior to the majority. But if you express pride in belonging to a majority, it's not really pride in yourself, (because most people around you are just the same), but rather contempt for the few people who don't fit into the norm.

So the smaller the minority of people you are proud not to belong to, the more threatening it will appear to them, and the more fascistic your opinions will appear to a third party. And in Finland you literally have to walk inside an ethnic food restaurant to find someone who is not white, at least outside of the capital.
 
#19 ·
I'm not outraged by people getting upset by racism, I'm simply tired of people bitching and complaining about some random guys personal beliefs.

Should the guy be banned from his profession because he happens to be a bigot and a racist? Of course not. As Voltaire (a far wiser man than all of us) once said, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

If you give this crap air time, it gives it power. If you ignore it, all power is lost.
 
#20 ·
Are they still personal beliefs when he shows it off to the world on TV? By the way his personal beliefs represent Racism, violence and murder to certain people. Think about Bin Laden his "personal beliefs" are to kill as many Americans as possible. Is that ok too? I doubt it. I guess it all depends on who your hatred is directed at..
 
#21 ·
Is wearing a cross on a chain around your neck a symbol of your personal belief? Of course. Just because you are letting people know what your personal beliefs are, doesn't make them any less personal.

I didn't say his beliefs are ok. I never even implied that. I would say, however, that it is perfectly ok for him to believe whatever he wants. You can't force someone to believe what you want. Also, according to American laws (I know he is finnish or something like that) Freedom of speech allows him to say/believe whatever he wants, as long as it doesn't break any other laws. IMO, his tattoos represent an extension of his freedom of speech.

Like the Voltaire quote states, I don't have to like anything about what he believes/says, but I should, and will, defend his rights to believe/say it.

And please, never imply that I am a hypocrite again. If an american citizen held the same beliefs as Osama, yet never broke any laws in furtherance of those beliefs, then I absolutely think it is acceptable, according the bill of rights, for them to believe that way.

Comparing Hitler to Osama is a good analogy IMO (both want the death of a certain kind of people), and I would apply the same logic to both.
 
#23 ·
No, it depends on whether or not you act on it. Bin Laden murdered thousands of people. How many people has this guy murdered? Or advocated the murder of? Or done anything illegal? Nothing that we know of so saying he shouldn't be allowed to fight is idiotic censorship. He is allowed to be a dick and still be a professional athlete.
 
#22 ·
I agree with what Tito and Bas said on "Inside MMA". Regardless of the guys personal views now or in the past, it reinforces the negative misconceptions some have about MMA and is therefore bad for sport. He should either have the tattoos permanently removed/covered or else he shouldn't be allowed to fight.
 
#36 · (Edited by Moderator)
So long as he's never hurt anyone--outside the ring--nothing he says, writes, speaks, or gets tattooed on him matters. If you start punishing people for what they think you're no better than the Nazis he respects so much!

Not a newsworthy story at all!



hypothetical:

I believe that religion is the scourge of humanity and that everyone who blindly believes in religion is directly responsible for all the hate and death and war in the world. I therefore believe that everyone who has a religious tattoo--Hey, Brazilians, I'm looking at you--should not be allowed to fight unless they get their tattoos removed or covered up. I believe that fighters displaying their allegiance to criminal organizations such as the Catholic church a bad example of MMA fighters and speak poorly for the sport.
 
#24 ·
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me
 
#25 ·
To be clear I'm all for freedom of speech. My beef is with people trying to downplay the issue at hand. An MMA fighter with a swastika tattoo, *********** on his back and "Born to hate" on his stomach....But Like you said I cant force anyone to believe what I believe and obviously those symbols mean different things to me and you.
 
#38 ·
swastika tats are not illegal to have.. Honestly I don't see what the big problem is as long as hes not displaying any racist behavior in the sport which he hasn't.. He said its all in his past.. He shouldn't cover it up either if he doesn't want to.. Our pasts mold us and he apparently is in a positive direction now.. :thumbsup:
He probably shouldn't fight in Germany then. :confused05:
 
#40 ·
Bottomline is, the promotion is employing him. It's bad news for a promotion to be seen as tolerating open racism. As a private business they have every right to ask him to cover up his tattoos when he fights, or even to tell him to take a hike until he gets rid of them.
 
#45 ·
You can debate morals and ethics all day and all night,and there will be arguments from every part of the spectrum.

BUT

Bottomline is, the promotion is employing him. It's bad news for a promotion to be seen as tolerating open racism. As a private business they have every right to ask him to cover up his tattoos when he fights, or even to tell him to take a hike until he gets rid of them.
You live up to your title. You finish threads.
 
#43 ·
Funny how everyone is acting so offended by this guy being a White racialist but yet have no problem with a guy like Cain Valesquez being a Chicano racialist with his "Brown Pride" tatto prominently displayed on his chest. A classic case of "Doublethink" which is getting more and more common in the Western world.
 
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