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MMA vs Street Fighter

9K views 40 replies 13 participants last post by  RangerClydeTheBlue 
#1 ·
So, I hear this alot in my neck of the woods and alot of people say that someone with just 1 Month of BJJ could submit the average person (or hurt them on the "street"). Does anyone think this is a good number? BJJ doesn't prepare you to get smashed in the face and while I love MMA and train, I'm not so convinced that your average MMA fighter could run through just anyone on the street (that has never trained in any martial art or discipline). My main reason is this: there is no feeling out process like we tend to see in sanctioned fights (and no rules). Any thoughts?
 
#2 ·
So, I hear this alot in my neck of the woods and alot of people say that someone with just 1 Month of BJJ could submit the average person (or hurt them on the "street"). Does anyone think this is a good number? BJJ doesn't prepare you to get smashed in the face and while I love MMA and train, I'm not so convinced that your average MMA fighter could run through just anyone on the street (that has never trained in any martial art or discipline). My main reason is this: there is no feeling out process like we tend to see in sanctioned fights (and no rules). Any thoughts?
It depends on how many lessons that person has had during that one month period. I would say you probably only need 5 lessons, with prior knowledge of MMA/BJJ, to easily defeat an 'average' person off the street.

Also, BJJ does prepare you for getting hit in the face!!!!!

BJJ is a Martial Art of self defence, every martial art prepares you for getting hit in the face.

You give 'a feeling out process' as your reason as to why an average MMA fighter couldn't run through an average person on the street? This is complete nonsense buddy. There would be no need for a feeling out process, an average MMA fighter would crush anyone of similar size who hasn't had any training. Now if your talking about someone who has had only 1 month of BJJ/MMA training, taking out some random on the street, then the result would be the same.

You train MMA? Then either you're lying, delusional or trolling. If you are completely innocent then I hope my post has helped you.
 
#5 ·
1. BJJ doesn't prepare you for that. If you train BJJ somewhere where you're getting hit in the face when you're rolling then get your money back.

2. Every martial art prepares you for that? No.

3. I've seen a few top notch MMA guys get their ass beat by someone with no prior MMA experience or any martial art at that. Didn't Don Frye get beat down in a hotel lobby? Ever heard Nick Diaz talk about getting his ass beat? And please no one say "they aren't top notch guys." They were/are professional fighters and that's what this discussion is about. All I'm merely saying is that fighting in the octagon and on the street IS two different things. If you put me in a triangle, who is to say I won't just bite off your balls? That kinda thing.

4. No, I'm not lying or trolling or anything. I simply asked a question but alot of people like to look tough on the forum by "calling people out" like that. Either way, I don't train on a full time basis but yeah I train and have had a couple of amateur fights (5 to be exact).
 
#11 ·
I always thought if a BJJ guy triangled a guy in a street fight 1 of 2 things could happen.

1 - the other guys friends would stomp all over him.

2 - the other guy would pick him up and slam him into the concrete.
When I apply a triangle I usually try to hook the guy's leg with my arm on the same side that my leg is against his neck, to secure a good choking angle. Although we don't slam each other in class, I think that grip also makes it pretty hard to do that. However, grabbing his leg in that way leaves your face open for strikes from his free arm, especially if you're using your other hand to adjust your legs of pull down his head. Although someone who doesn't know how to defend a triangle won't have many seconds to do so.
I've been doing BJJ for 2 years
If you put me in a triangle, who is to say I won't just bite off your balls?
No offense, but I find it a bit unbelievable that someone who has been training bjj for 2 years would still think a triangle will put you in a position where your opponent can bite your balls. :confused02:
 
#18 · (Edited)
(regurgitating my JuJitsu teacher) Simple wins fights, no matter what level you are you're going to need to rely on the white belt moves, because that's your base and that's where you need to be able to make the right move on instinct.

As a white belt where I train we don't learn submissions, they're not the basics. The basics are break-falls, movement, striking, positioning, and keeping your hands up.
Can a submission win a fight, yes, is it always going to be ideal, no. The more training and experience you have the better off you should be on average.
 
#20 ·
Exact same with me.

True dat. I've never seen anyone bite someone in a street, bar, club, restaurant, cafe...any fight for that matter. I've seen people getting shanked, hit in the head with baseball bats w/ head split open, bottles galore, stools, chairs, head butt, flying soccer kick, stomps, and pretty much everything else you can imagine. :) But never biting, eye guaging, pokes in the ribs (lolz), and thankfully no curb stomping.
That's like grade school stuff man. When people get into holds biting won't make the other guy release it. You're going to sleep.

One thing Kin speaks from experience is adrenaline. ANYONE who's done battle can agree. You're impervious to gun shot wounds and stab wounds for less than a minute...then you'll pass out from blood loss. You're fighting for your life so you're in a fight or flight mode.

Had an acquaintance who got jacked in an alley and fought off three dudes getting punctured in the lung and slashed in his arm blocking it...knocking out all three then passing out to the ER. We were practicing different moves, trading war stories and he showed me his narly scars.

Anyways you shouldn't be getting into street fights cuz almost always someone else has a weapon or a larger crew than you. But hey if you want to get an adrenaline rush be my guest.
"You're fighting for your life so you're in a fight or flight mode."

"That's like grade school stuff man."

Dont you feel this contradicts? You're right with your first part, you're fighting for your life. In that case, I couldn't care less if it was grade school, playschool, high school or driving school, if something works, I'll use it. Someone has you in a triangle in a fight right? Well, you dont know him, so for all you know he's literally going to choke you to death. I dont know if you've ever been choked out of a controlled enviroment, but that sudden panic will make you do anything you can. Biting and groin grabs are pretty much your only options there.

And say you get someone in a triangle and put them to sleep. You say you wont let go because of the adrenaline of the fight. Alright, but heres the situation. He bites you, takes a huge chunk out your leg (5-10 seconds is a HUGE amount of time), and you put him to sleep. In 10 minutes he wakes up and is fine, but you've got a hole the size of a mouth removed for the rest of your life. I consider him to have bested that exchange.

You're taking fighting as in there is a winner and loser. "Thats grade school stuff". If you actually know fighting (which you might well), you'll know that respect goes out the window. Unless you're still in high school, respect for winning a fight doesnt exist out of sports and regulated compitition. If this is a hate triggered fight, you're just looking to hurt someone. He knows submissions? Rib his balls off, see if he's bragging about putting you out to his mates the next day.

And I've seen someone bite someone in a fight. About 2 years ago a mate of mine got someone in a headlock (like under the arm) and was punching the other dude. He ended up having to get 7 stitches in his side after the dude went lock jaw on him. You're constrained to a point where you can only move your mouth, and you're being choked, you may aswell try and rip the dudes flesh off before he puts you out and maybe even threatens your life.

I agree that you shouldnt be getting in fights though. I'm at that stage where I love fighting, but I could NEVER start a fight. I'd feel horrible if I ever started on someone. Way too old for that bullshit, and I'm only 20. You do get those situations though where you think "I'd LOVE someone to take a dig at me right now" :D. And if someone has a bigger crew or a weapon, you may aswell go down swinging.
 
#25 ·
CANT BE BOTHERED QUOTING, BUT REPLYING TO VOICELESS WITH THE BOLD PARTS!!!!

That's nonesense. I'd favor classical Jiu Jitsu over MMA for street fighting, because fighting with clothes on and fighting naked/sweaty makes a bit of a difference and where I live people wear clothes mostly all of the year, so training with Gi makes sense. And in Jiu Jitsu you train against armed attacks and tactics against multiple opponents. BUT MMA training is still superior to the majority of traditional martial arts, because a) it isn't restricted to only stand up, only take downs or only ground fighting, and b) training is usually more honest than it is actually done in most traditional martial arts classes, because it is full contact and there is a bigger focus on building physical strength.

I dont get how any of this is relevent to what I said. But as with JJ training against multiple opponents and arm attacks, yeah sure, that stuff works...but are you a master of it? If not, it's not that effective. Again, the main training will be awareness and experience in those situations. Takedowns and stuff are alright in a street fight, but generally it just happens. You're usually not standing in the middle of an open field at the time. You try and take a dude down and you probably go against a wall, and you only have so much time before someone tries to break it up or the cops come. Best thing in a street fight is near enough always to keep it standing and for a trained fighter, to use his ability to see punches coming and avoid them to make the difference and gap between a trained and untrained fighter becoming very clear. My mate said 3 people attacked him a few months ago. From karate sparring, which is jabbing and straights, he said their haymakers were SO easy to avoid, and he never got caught by one until they were stopped by someone passing by. Chokes and shit only work when you've been training them daily for years upon years, and I mean martial arts chokes. If you're training your guillotine in MMA class, you're training for sport, not self defence, which is where "dirty" shit catches you off guard.

Wrong, if you don't have cardio and haven't trained how to pace yourself in full contact training and go berserk in a street fight, you will gas in 30 seconds. If you don't put your opponent away in that time, you're in big trouble. If there isn't a significant difference in fighing ability, knocking someone out isn't that easy. And if you have to run away, you really want to have better cardio than the guy with the knife who runs after you.

Theres a difference between going all out and street fighting. I wasnt meaning swing for the fences Leben style. I mean MMA cardio and general stamina. You dont need CARDIO because you're not going to be fighting a 25 minute fight. Shit will be over within 5 minutes 90% of the time. I dont know if you have it wherever you're from,. but if you watch the traveller fights, these are guys who hit the punchbag at home and thats about it. They fight for ages because they arent just swinging like mad cnts, but jabbing and picking shots. The trained fighter will do that, and if he can punch well, and is against a general non trained fighter, he will probably knock him out or make him quit quite quickly so cardio doesnt really come into it.

Thinking that take downs don't work in street fights is also wrong. Firstly, most people don't know how to defend a take down. Secondly, on the streets you don't fight on suspended ground covered with a mat. Because of that, a good take down has a pretty high chance to result in a KO. And if you know how to use take downs on the street, the guy doesn't just fall on an even concrete floor (which is already quite damaging), but on curb stone, car edges, spiky fences etc.

If you hold him down and he cant move, desperation sets in. In MMA, this means submissions and attempts to get up. In a real life fight, this means trying to bite your face off. You might be a hardy guy for all I know, but someone starts biting your cheek off you're going to freak the fuk out. Just human nature. In MMA guys drop for like 2mins with a groin shot, wait till some dudes trying to rip them off.
 
#32 ·
I dont get how any of this is relevent to what I said.
My answer was relevant in as you claimed "MMA Vs Street Fighter is only relevent as in trained fighter Vs untrained fighter." and supported the "MMA doesnt work" attitude of your sensei. I gave you reasons why this isn't true.

But as with JJ training against multiple opponents and arm attacks, yeah sure, that stuff works...but are you a master of it? If not, it's not that effective.
I don't believe in "mastering" a fighting skill. To me that would imply to be perfect and flawless - always, in every situation. Which you can't, because every fighting situation is different. Nerve conduction velocity is limited (~ 100m/s), your brain has to process the incoming information etc. So perfection is biologically impossible. With training you can only gain a high aptitude in skill. And no credible JJ/Self Defense/etc. instructor would tell you that with his training you're protected against multiple opponents and armed attacks. You just better your odds.

Again, the main training will be awareness and experience in those situations. Takedowns and stuff are alright in a street fight, but generally it just happens. You're usually not standing in the middle of an open field at the time. You try and take a dude down and you probably go against a wall, and you only have so much time before someone tries to break it up or the cops come. Best thing in a street fight is near enough always to keep it standing and for a trained fighter, to use his ability to see punches coming and avoid them to make the difference and gap between a trained and untrained fighter becoming very clear. My mate said 3 people attacked him a few months ago. From karate sparring, which is jabbing and straights, he said their haymakers were SO easy to avoid, and he never got caught by one until they were stopped by someone passing by. Chokes and shit only work when you've been training them daily for years upon years, and I mean martial arts chokes. If you're training your guillotine in MMA class, you're training for sport, not self defence, which is where "dirty" shit catches you off guard.
Both statements are false. 1) You don't need to pratice chokes daily for years to be able to execute them in a fight. I.e. a RNC (or Hadaka Jime for Japanese martial arts like Karate) can be internalised when training twice a week in a month or so. 2) "dirty" shit doesn't necessarily catch fighters that train for sport off guard. Even in purely sports oriented Olympic Judo classes they teach that "dirty" techniques are only illegal if the referee sees them.

Theres a difference between going all out and street fighting. I wasnt meaning swing for the fences Leben style. I mean MMA cardio and general stamina. You dont need CARDIO because you're not going to be fighting a 25 minute fight. Shit will be over within 5 minutes 90% of the time.
5 Minutes can be pretty long when you don't train cardio. Ask Shane Carwin, who is a professional athlete and even trains cardio. To neglect cardio in training for street fighting is plain stupid. Yes, often a fight is over in a few minutes, but you never know. You don't want to gas in 30 seconds. And in case you have to run away, you want to have a gas tank to be able to do so.

If you hold him down and he cant move, desperation sets in. In MMA, this means submissions and attempts to get up. In a real life fight, this means trying to bite your face off. You might be a hardy guy for all I know, but someone starts biting your cheek off you're going to freak the fuk out. Just human nature. In MMA guys drop for like 2mins with a groin shot, wait till some dudes trying to rip them off.
I don't know where the reference is to what I've written. You answer completely off topic. My statement was an answer to your claim that take downs don't work in a street fight, now you come up with biting again. You even quoted my statement. As a reminder, here it is again:

"Thinking that take downs don't work in street fights is also wrong. Firstly, most people don't know how to defend a take down. Secondly, on the streets you don't fight on suspended ground covered with a mat. Because of that, a good take down has a pretty high chance to result in a KO. And if you know how to use take downs on the street, the guy doesn't just fall on an even concrete floor (which is already quite damaging), but on curb stone, car edges, spiky fences etc."
 
#28 ·
I replied to all of that, only to now realize that it didnt come through.

Basically, the summary of what I was saying was that Street Fighting and Untrained are two different things. For example, one of the two martial arts I do pretty much specialises in techniques to be used in the street. While I probably can't do any of it, the sensei and other high grade practitioners would have a very high level of ability regarding it. An MMA fighter might have a guillotine or a triangle up his sleeve, but just because we see that stuff in the cage doesnt mean it's the most effective. Wrist locks are equally as effective, and because small joint manipulation isnt allowed in the cage, an MMA fighter won't have come across it. I believe this levels up the playing field between what techniques will change the fight. Adding to that, an MMA fighter has holds barred, while a martial artist training in a non sports enviroment has none. Eye gouges, groin shots and hair pulling or whatever you mentioned might not be the best techniques ever on their own, or as a counter, but when mixed in with technique and intent they are a lot more damaging than otherwise. The person training for combat on the street will have an obvious home field advantage. Martial arts takes street fighting in, as martial arts was not developed as a competition, but as a self defence system. Everything stems from that, and unlike MMA which is 100% focused to competing, the techniques are designed to prevent threats on your life, not victory. Street fighting isnt the drunk guy outside a nighclub, it's a non disqualification fight to the finish, whether that be by it being broke up or worse. Take weapons in too. An MMA fight will have no clue how to disarm a martial artist with a weapon, let alone defend against it.

It's pretty much what I said earlier. It's only relevent when you take a trained fighter against an untrained fighter. When you're trying to use techniques like a triangle, in which you'll either have to pull guard or use it from the top, you had better make sure it's an untrained fighter. You pull guard on the street, instead of trying to punch you, someone with intelligence could just repeatedly slam your head onto the concrete. You can lock in a triangle, but if they have any sort of martial arts knowledge, you could be picked up and slammed, with a massive chance of suffering a huge injury. If you go for the guillotine, even basic fighters can keep it standing and put it against the cage. Take the cage away. You're getting thrown into actual things. Buildings, cards, lampposts. That isn't going to knock you out but if people can use the cage to slip out of submissions, I'm sure using a solid surface will be a lot easier. Thats what I'm saying that using the natural abilities of an MMA fighter is the best thing to do. An MMA fighter will have more experience in sparring than any "street fighter", because they don't need real life fights to have punches coming at them with the intent of knockout and damage. Keeping it standing allows the MMA fighter to use his reactions and reflexes against the less experiences opponent, but taking it to the ground allows a trained fighter the oppertunity to exocute techniques the MMA fighter has never even heard of.
 
#29 ·
I replied to all of that, only to now realize that it didnt come through.

Basically, the summary of what I was saying was that Street Fighting and Untrained are two different things. For example, one of the two martial arts I do pretty much specialises in techniques to be used in the street. While I probably can't do any of it, the sensei and other high grade practitioners would have a very high level of ability regarding it.
So you're not very good, but your sensei and sempai are... But if you're not very good, how credible is your assessment of their abilities?

An MMA fighter might have a guillotine or a triangle up his sleeve, but just because we see that stuff in the cage doesnt mean it's the most effective. Wrist locks are equally as effective, and because small joint manipulation isnt allowed in the cage, an MMA fighter won't have come across it. I believe this levels up the playing field between what techniques will change the fight.
Wrist locks are far less effective because the lack of control they afford. They're definitely worthwhile techniques, but lower on the pecking scale than chokes in general unarmed combat. A lot of times, a fully resisting opponent can rip free or won't be in a position to catch them in a good one. That said, I do agree that they have value when someone grabs your clothes and that is where they are most viable.

However, you are flat-out wrong about it evening the playing field. There's a saying that novices talk about gear, while professionals discuss tactics. The same is true about martial arts. You're trying to make an argument about how "this technique will beat these techniques." No, that's not how it works.

Techniques are secondary to delivery systems. How good you are at performing techniques -- whatever they are -- against an uncooperative opponent. How do you get good at that? Live drilling and heavy, realistic sparring on a regular basis. The more frequently you do that, and the better partners you have, the better you will become.

And that is why anyone who claims that they can beat a high level professional fighter because they have more street-ready techniques is an idiot, a fraud, delusional, or any combination there of.

Simply put, if a BJJ brown belt fought your sensei, the brown belt is more likely to land a wristlock than your sensei. Why? Because, the brown belt is already extremely accustomed to controlling and dominating COMPETENT grapplers, who are fully resisting his attempts to do so. Meanwhile, your instructor has only his underlings (who, evidently, are so bad at grappling they think they can bite their way out of triangles) to practice his moves on. Ultimately, its not about who's got the bigger payload; it is about who can deliver it.

The sport fighter, who devotes hours upon hours to non-compliant training will be that guy 99 times out of 100.


Adding to that, an MMA fighter has holds barred, while a martial artist training in a non sports enviroment has none. Eye gouges, groin shots and hair pulling or whatever you mentioned might not be the best techniques ever on their own, or as a counter, but when mixed in with technique and intent they are a lot more damaging than otherwise.
The bold part is true. Combat athletes are good at fighting. Self defense martial artists are (theoretically) good at surviving dangerous scenarios.

A legitimate Reality Based Self Defense practitioner would survive a lot of scenarios are sport fighter would not. However, if they were to collide in unarmed combat, the sport fighter would definitely have a HUUUGE advantage. Because fighting is his domain.

Really, the most effective thing to do would be to get good at actually fighting (via sports training) then tacking on some scenario-based drilling and 'street techniques' later.

The person training for combat on the street will have an obvious home field advantage. Martial arts takes street fighting in, as martial arts was not developed as a competition, but as a self defence system. Everything stems from that, and unlike MMA which is 100% focused to competing, the techniques are designed to prevent threats on your life, not victory. Street fighting isnt the drunk guy outside a nighclub, it's a non disqualification fight to the finish, whether that be by it being broke up or worse. Take weapons in too. An MMA fight will have no clue how to disarm a martial artist with a weapon, let alone defend against it.
The bolded portion holds *some* truth, but definitely doesn't apply to the surprising amount of people who cross train MMA and Kali.

The advantage in a fight would go to the guy who's better at fighting. That will be the MMA guy -- regardless of rules.

The funny thing about this is that the only people who seem to think otherwise ARE PEOPLE WHO CANT FIGHT.

I've met plenty of people in MMA, who have tons of street fighting experience, bouncing experience, self defense experience, or something of that sort. All of these people, who have street experience, have said the exact same thing I said above.

The LARPers, the delusional, and the phonies are the ones who try to sell you this idea of 'magic techniques' that will somehow outclass superior skill.


It's pretty much what I said earlier. It's only relevent when you take a trained fighter against an untrained fighter. When you're trying to use techniques like a triangle, in which you'll either have to pull guard or use it from the top, you had better make sure it's an untrained fighter. You pull guard on the street, instead of trying to punch you, someone with intelligence could just repeatedly slam your head onto the concrete. You can lock in a triangle, but if they have any sort of martial arts knowledge, you could be picked up and slammed, with a massive chance of suffering a huge injury. If you go for the guillotine, even basic fighters can keep it standing and put it against the cage. Take the cage away. You're getting thrown into actual things. Buildings, cards, lampposts. That isn't going to knock you out but if people can use the cage to slip out of submissions, I'm sure using a solid surface will be a lot easier. Thats what I'm saying that using the natural abilities of an MMA fighter is the best thing to do. An MMA fighter will have more experience in sparring than any "street fighter", because they don't need real life fights to have punches coming at them with the intent of knockout and damage. Keeping it standing allows the MMA fighter to use his reactions and reflexes against the less experiences opponent, but taking it to the ground allows a trained fighter the oppertunity to exocute techniques the MMA fighter has never even heard of.
This whole part was retarded and again displays your gaping lack of knowledge. If you get picked up so easily on triangles, you clearly suck. I mean, it happens once in a while maybe, but most of the time it results on them falling on to their side or on the wrong end of a mounted triangle. So no. Just no.

Anyways, some thing I always bring up to people who think dirty techniques will trump actual skill and experience in dealing with resisting opponents... Do you think your revered sensei would lose to a white belt if only the white belt could use dirty techniques? Because that's pretty much what your argument is.

Though almost everything you've said is dumb, I will give you credit for being very gentlemanly about it while I continue to be rude and disparaging. So props for that, if nothing else.
 
#35 ·
No way, one month isn't nearly enough. Assuming they are of equal "toughness" , the guy would need 3+ months at a minimum, but more importantly an equal amount of stand up training on how how to avoid the big punch.

I assume you're talking about 1 on 1 without weapons. Multiple opponents and/or a weapon isn't worth discussing imo, unless we're talking about a movie scene.
 
#40 ·
just came back from the gym and reading this. I've done some wing chun (which is probably the most "vocal" art in the "my art is a lethal weapon" category) and whatnot in the past. Been training mma for a month now to get back in shape and well... just try it out, since I enjoy watching it so much.

First off, that "cardio" aspect. We're not talking rounds, we're talking minutes. I'm pretty sure an untrained guy would gas out in less than a minute (and that includes many amongst those who train in traditional stuff)

We've been sparring (something that I've never done in WC) and that is also an aspect that will give the advantage: experience. The harder you spar, the more ready you'll be. I'm not even talking about those who actually fight.

dirty techniques have legal ramifications that you or anyone else don't want to deal with. Whereas a choke is clean.

Basically, an untrained guy will be at a disadvantage vs any trained dude, but actual, regular fighting experience will give the MMA fighter an edge (and probably, as mentioned above, any sport-type fighter).

A well trained grappler/MMA grappler can put an untrained guy into a hold before the guy realizes what's happening.


MMA was born for this, test the "most effective style", until they figured that there is no "more effective style", but that they can take what has been proven to actually work, and put it into what they then called "Mixed Martial Arts"

The beauty of it is that everyone can still bring whatever traditional stuff they learned before, and test it out, refine it, adapt it, modify it so it actually works.

The one thing I missed in traditional MA was that "realistic" approach through actual sparring against non compliant opponents.

In no way, shape or form do I want to disrespect traditional MA, my own son does some as well. They can teach anyone lots of good stuff. But with more and more people being educated and training in MMA nowadays, I wouldn't rely on solely traditional MA to actually defend myself.

Sprinting is, and always has been the best solution to win a fight.

So if you want to be unbeatable, you better hit the track
 
#41 ·
I'm not getting invovled in this thread again lmao, but to police a choke is NOT clean. It's more dangerous than almost any other technique to them, and if the person gets any sort of damage from it you'll def be looking at jail time. A martial artist will always be in big trouble if you take legal action into things.
 
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