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View Poll Results: Rate Tiger Woods and Golf. Choose the two options that reflect your opinion.

Tiger Woods is an elite athlete 20 74.07%
Tiger Woods is not an elite athlete 5 18.52%
Golf is a sport 17 62.96%
Golf is not a sport 5 18.52%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-14-2008, 04:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_In_GSP View Post
Fair enough, my man. Just a few things…

Webster's definition of the word athlete:
I just feel Tiger fits the mold here.
So golf is a sport that requires physical strength, agility and speed?

I voted to say that it's a sport. I do think that it requires a great deal of skill and personally believe that it is a sport.

My point isn't that Tiger Woods isn't an athlete, my point is that he doesn't have the athleticism of other professional athletes, guy I personally consider "elite."


Quote:
It's tough to find information on his regime, but I've read of him benching close to 300 lbs, running distances of 3 miles and 7 miles on given days, and working out in the gym quite a bit. I'll see if I can find some more information related to these statements.
I don't think he benches 300. If he does, then I will apologize and say that he is a stronger dude than I initially thought he was, but I think you're getting him confused with Vijay Singh, who's a much bigger, much stronger (physically) guy.

As far as how much Tiger runs. He runs the course after every match. He's in shape, but is going to run those miles as fast as a different athlete, like, say, Bush or Garnett or Torii Hunter.


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Would it be fair to say that Tiger's superior hand-eye coordination could translate in the MLB if given the same time and effort?
Sure, but that's only one part of the game, and if we're going to say that when we should say that every baseball player in the pros with a .200+ batting average could make the PGA tour with effort. I don't think that's true, there's more to the game of golf than that.

That said, there's also more to baseball than just hitting the ball. How would Tiger move down the first base like? How would he move in the field?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but if you think that he would be at the level of an elite MLB player, like Ichiro or Hunter, I think you're absolutely nuts.

I also agree with you about Brian. I just wanted to make clear that we were on the same page.




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I agree, but I think it works the exact same for golf.

Edit: See GMW's post below for workout regime information.
As far as his personal routine, it's good but it's not impressive. I've watched guys like Baron Davis work out and I've trained with some of the guys I consider elite athletes in MMA, BJJ, wrestling and sub fighting. They go beyond that, though I'll say that it's important to note that this is Tiger's routine for rehab and not his regular workout, at least from what I gathered.
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MLS View Post
So who is tougher a golfer or a basketball player who is shooting every shot with thousands of fans making noise or a kicker in football making a kick with thousands of fans making noise. Do you ever see any other athlete freak out about making a shot or kicking a ball more than you do when a golfer hits the ball?



Problem with your statement is the other guy I quoted who seems to have the same thinking as you disagree's on whether or not a golfer could overcome fans cheering. SO who is right? But refer to my post to him as well.
Wow this has turned into a healthly debate- just got back so I'll start here. To the freaking out part- yes I've seen plenty of athletes freak out after missing a shot/kick/etc baseball players react badly at times after striking out in key situations, kickers in NFL have buried their heads in their hands and dropped to the field, soccer players have done the same after missing a penalty shot or an easy one. Every player reacts somehow after a bad miss some contain it internally and some let whatever explode out of them.

With regards to the crowd noise I really think it's a moot point- it just isn't done so whether or not a golfer could adapt it's hard to argue either way. When golf was invented in Scotland but they decided to hurl insults or haggis at each others' head during the backswing or putting- over time, yes I think they would have adapted had that been the common practice and golfers today would be used to it. That's why I think it's a moot point- it's just not done and hasn't been done.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:06 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Wow this has turned into a healthly debate- just got back so I'll start here. To the freaking out part- yes I've seen plenty of athletes freak out after missing a shot/kick/etc baseball players react badly at times after striking out in key situations, kickers in NFL have buried their heads in their hands and dropped to the field, soccer players have done the same after missing a penalty shot or an easy one. Every player reacts somehow after a bad miss some contain it internally and some let whatever explode out of them.

With regards to the crowd noise I really think it's a moot point- it just isn't done so whether or not a golfer could adapt it's hard to argue either way. When golf was invented in Scotland but they decided to hurl insults or haggis at each others' head during the backswing or putting- over time, yes I think they would have adapted had that been the common practice and golfers today would be used to it. That's why I think it's a moot point- it's just not done and hasn't been done.
It's not moot because how can you continue to say that Tiger has the greatest mental toughness when he can't deal with something every other althlete has to deal with?
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:38 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
So golf is a sport that requires physical strength, agility and speed?
Webster's definition of the word athlete: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina.

I think it does require stamina, not speed. But in regards to Tiger Woods as an individual, being a track star and running long distance prior to sticking solely with golf would, in my book, classify him as having speed. I think it takes agility to contort his body the way he does in order to maximize power in his swing. I think it takes strength to hit the ball as far as he does or put the kind of spin of the ball that he does.

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
Sure, but that's only one part of the game, and if we're going to say that when we should say that every baseball player in the pros with a .200+ batting average could make the PGA tour with effort. I don't think that's true, there's more to the game of golf than that.
The only reason I mentioned baseball was because part of your definition of an athlete entailed being good at another sport:

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
A real elite athlete is someone who can play their sport, but also has the physical conditioning and skills to play another sport, not on the same level, but very, very well.

Reggie Bush is an elite athlete, because if he played basketball, he could dunk and he could move and his athleticism would remain consistent.
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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
That said, there's also more to baseball than just hitting the ball. How would Tiger move down the first base like? How would he move in the field?
I also brought it up because you thought I assumed Tiger's golf swing would translate into a good baseball swing. I only mentioned this transition because you had seemed to make one with Reggie Bush, from football to basketball. Can Reggie Bush dribble well? Can he drive to his left or make a left-handed lay-up? Does he know his place in the defense? Can he shoot? Can he make a shot with a 6'8" defender on him? There are variables that go along with a transition from football to basketball in the same way there are for golf to baseball. I'm certainly not suggesting John Daly start as a DH over David Ortiz!

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
As far as his personal routine, it's good but it's not impressive. I've watched guys like Baron Davis work out and I've trained with some of the guys I consider elite athletes in MMA, BJJ, wrestling and sub fighting. They go beyond that, though I'll say that it's important to note that this is Tiger's routine for rehab and not his regular workout, at least from what I gathered.
Baron Davis has a different demand from his sport than does Tiger. Just because golf doesn't demand Tiger doesn't demonstrate all of your demanding characteristics to be an athlete, does not imply that Tiger does not possess them. He is sticking to what he does best, and what can earn him the most money. He is predicted to be the first athlete to break 1 billion by 2010 so there is plenty of incentive for him NOT to show his athletic talents in other sports realms.

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
There are some great, top tier baseball players that are not elite athletes. There are others that are.
If this statement can be true for baseball, why not golf?

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
I voted to say that it's a sport. I do think that it requires a great deal of skill and personally believe that it is a sport.
If something is given a label of a sport, aren't the participants considered athletes? And if someone dominates that one sport, are they not elite?
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:09 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MLS View Post
It's not moot because how can you continue to say that Tiger has the greatest mental toughness when he can't deal with something every other althlete has to deal with?
Hey man I never said Tiger has the "greatest mental toughness"-

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Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Tiger is definitely an elite athlete and I did vote for Golf being a sport- it may not require super athletic skills(see John Daly puffin' and drinkin') or an athletic physique(see Phil Mickelson's glorious man-boobs) but the mental toughness, practice of long hours honing different shots with different clubs and the maintenance of your body to remain strong and flexible. A lot of golfers did not work out until Tiger came onto the scene and his driving length forced them to adapt their game(and physical abilities) to try and catch up with him.
That's all I said about that(and I highlighted the part about Phil's Moobies because I want the next thread to debate the pros and cons of man boobs in sports ). I still think it's a moot point just because introducing crowd into golf would be akin to deciding to turn off all the lights in a basketball arena during free throws to make them more challenging. It just isn't done so it's hard to debate it. I do honestly think that had crowd noise always been done at golf events then I think players would have adapted to it over the years that golf has been around. The silence in golf is a challenge in it's own right as you have to have the mental strength to concentrate as you feel every eye on you but hear nothing. It's weird but it can be unnerving.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:27 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Hey man I never said Tiger has the "greatest mental toughness"-
That is one half of the debate going on here. Some people say he has the greattest mental toughness and some don't. I just want to know how someone can consider him that when he can't deal with something that every other athlete has to deal with.
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