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post #121 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bbjd7 View Post
I agree with you on the goaltenders just remember that Van der Saar and Lehman are older guys so after long season there defiantly could be some letdown.

Except for France, Spain has the best defence in the world. Both Puyol, and Sergio are top flight defenders and Lahm isn't as good as you are givin him credit for.



You are forgetting Spain's depth in the midfield they also have Xavi and Alonso who are both very good. Best midfield in the world depth wise no doubt. And all their midfielders are top class.

Striker wise Torres is one of the best strikers in the world already and Villa is becoming one. And was the most dominant striker in qualifying for Euro 2008.

Ruud is getting older and not as explosive as he used to be.

Thierry Henry isn't the striker he used to be and is injured right now.

And as a Chelsea fan don't even get me started on the disappearing acts that Anelka can pull.

Klose and Podolski I would say are the only pair talent wise that matches Spain's talent.


And yes Spain loses a lot and there is a good chance they lose this one to but talent wise I think they are the best in the world.
So you're saying that Puyol and Ramos are better than, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Matterazzi, Pannuci, Grosso, Carvallho, Pepe, Jankolovski, Ujafalusi?

I actually think guys like Toni, Koller, Kuyt, Van Persie, Frei, and Del Pierro rival Torres/Villa and at times beat them very well.

I understand fully why you support Spain, and honestly have nothing wrong with that, in fact, I love Spain. I just don't think they have the "glue" to hold them together or a designated leader to get them through the big games.

They are truely lucky to be in the group that they are, and I see them advancing very easily to the quarters, but once they start to meet some bigger teams, we will see the real Spain.
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post #122 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Why do you think Lehman and Van der Saar are better than Casillas, Plazzman? Not saying you are wrong, just curious. Henry is shit right now BTW.
Well for one, they have both been tested on every stage. Casillas is young and has a lot of juvenile slip ups. He's a stud, don't get me wrong, but he hasn't been in the same games, and hasn't faced the same competition these guys have.

Lehman and EVS are dudes who can carry a team on their backs, I truely can't see Iker doing that. In fact, I think Reyes is a much better leader than him.
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post #123 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 07:02 PM
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Puyol and Ramos are better than Cannavaro right now. Casillas has very few slips, one of the reasons Real Madrid keeps winning matches is because Casillas is there to save their ass when the defense slips. To me Casillas is more impressive than Lehman and Van der Saar, but I haven't seen them play as extensively as I have Casillas so I could be wrong. BTW, Casillas has played in the biggest stages, you know he has won the Champions League twice, right?
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post #124 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Puyol and Ramos are better than Cannavaro right now. Casillas has very few slips, one of the reasons Real Madrid keeps winning matches is because Casillas is there to save their ass when the defense slips. To me Casillas is more impressive than Lehman and Van der Saar, but I haven't seen them play as extensively as I have Casillas so I could be wrong. BTW, Casillas has played in the biggest stages, you know he has won the Champions League twice, right?
I don't know man, I actually think Madrid let's in way too many easy goals.

And no Puyol aint what he once was, he's getting old and they rely way too much on him. And Ramos is far too young, he isn't as matured in the back 4 as any of the guys I named.

And yes, sure he has, but then again, how far has he gone internationally? In fact, how far has Spain gone internationally? And how many teams has he actually led, or saved from the brink of defeat?

The way I see it, this is how I rank the GK's.

EVS
Peter Cech
Buffon
Lehman
Cassilas
Reyes
Boruc
Ricardo
Coupet
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post #125 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 07:16 PM
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Who is Reyes? I think you mean Reina. And as I said, if it wasn't for Casillas Real Madrid wouldn't be winning titles, Casilla saves the team on a regular basis. And don't getting titles with Spain means nothing in regard to individual talent, as I said Spain has great players but doesn't seem to be able to get it all together, put Casillas on Germany or Netherlands and I guarantee you he will do as good as Lehman and Van der Saar, if not better. The only gatekeeper I think is better is Buffon, and I'm saying that because of history because I think he's going downhill lately, he's still very good but not as good as he used to be. Puyol is as good as ever, in fact he's one of the few players in Barca that is very regular and always gives 100%, while the rest of the team has been playing like shit lately. Ramos may not have the experience but he is very good and is better than Cannavaro, Cannavaro comitted quite a few errors this season with Real Madrid. Same with Pepe. I think of that list the only ones better are Matterazzi and Zambrotta.
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post #126 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Who is Reyes? I think you mean Reina. And as I said, if it wasn't for Casillas Real Madrid wouldn't be winning titles, Casilla saves the team on a regular basis. And don't getting titles with Spain means nothing in regard to individual talent, as I said Spain has great players but doesn't seem to be able to get it all together, put Casillas on Germany or Netherlands and I guarantee you he will do as good as Lehman and Van der Saar, if not better. The only gatekeeper I think is better is Buffon, and I'm saying that because of history because I think he's going downhill lately, he's still very good but not as good as he used to be. Puyol is as good as ever, in fact he's one of the few players in Barca that is very regular and always gives 100%, while the rest of the team has been playing like shit lately. Ramos may not have the experience but he is very good and is better than Cannavaro, Cannavaro comitted quite a few errors this season with Real Madrid. Same with Pepe. I think of that list the only ones better are Matterazzi and Zambrotta.
Shit my bad, why did I keep saying Reyes, I meant Reina. lol

Look, I never said Iker isn't good because he hasn't won any international titles, neither have Cech, Lehman, and EVS. It is just the experience and leadership skills that set them apart.

Iker is an incredible athlete, but he's just not on the same level as any of those guys. And it's kinda easy to be a leader at Madrid, seeing as how feeble their whole team is.

Sure, you can add Puyol as the greatest defenders list, I'll agree, but Ramos is nowhere near the player the rest of the pack are.
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post #127 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 07:31 PM
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Man, me saying that he is better than anyone you mentioned except Zambrotta and Matterazzi is just my opinion, but if you don't include him in that list don't include Cannavaro either because he has looked worse than Ramos this season. Iker has good enough leadership and in pure goalkeeping ability (reflexes and such) he is above those goalkeepers, IMO. Leading the defense isn't that important, let the defense take care of themselves, and you take care of stopping the balls, it works for him in Real Madrid.
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post #128 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
Man, me saying that he is better than anyone you mentioned except Zambrotta and Matterazzi is just my opinion, but if you don't include him in that list don't include Cannavaro either because he has looked worse than Ramos this season. Iker has good enough leadership and in pure goalkeeping ability (reflexes and such) he is above those goalkeepers, IMO. Leading the defense isn't that important, let the defense take care of themselves, and you take care of stopping the balls, it works for him in Real Madrid.
To be honest, I never really considered Canavarro THAT great, I didn't even think he should have won the FPY, I'm just going by general consensus.

And yes you do need a goalie who can lead. I mean, who better in a position to tell the back 4 what to do?
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post #129 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by plazzman View Post
To be honest, I never really considered Canavarro THAT great, I didn't even think he should have won the FPY, I'm just going by general consensus.

And yes you do need a goalie who can lead. I mean, who better in a position to tell the back 4 what to do?
Canavarro had a rubish season but in the WC he was unbelievable and he deserved the award more than anyone else.sorry to but into your convo

Did anyone see Zlatans goal tonight what a strike
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post #130 of 489 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Canavarro had a rubish season but in the WC he was unbelievable and he deserved the award more than anyone else.sorry to but into your convo

Did anyone see Zlatans goal tonight what a strike
Yeah well thats when he was good, I didn't like him very much in Madrid.

My god man, what a beautiful goal. Zlatan always has great goals in the Euros.
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