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Old 10-15-2012, 01:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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punching without rotation of the fist?

I think after a fight I had where a guy had his blocking defense tight just sealed tight I kept front kicking him in the gut to get him to lower it to land a straight but nope lol he just kept that locked down solid and took that front kick and all of a sudden without my corner telling me I guess experimental or frustrated lol I started punching with my fist vertically and it went right through his seemingly tight gauard anyone else find this to work feels faster and more powerful to me
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That way (vertical fists like Bruce Lee used) is less teligraphic, gets past the gauard more easily, and may well be more powerful, but thats a maybe, it might just be more pushy and feel more powerful but is not in reality.

The turning of the hand over is more snappy and possibly more powerful and theres slightly more range on it.

I think vertical fists may well be superior overall.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The more I learn about fighting the more I see how many variations there are. Take for example casting. Whoever thought that was actually a style or a technique. Problem is you're prone to breaking your hand.

Ultimately it deals with the situation so I hate to say one style or technique is better than the other. I learned the Tae Kwon Do snapping kicks then converted to the Muay Thai dead leg kicks. So it's somewhere in the middle now...

Whatever suits you or suits the situation. As long as it works...
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No_Mercy View Post
The more I learn about fighting the more I see how many variations there are. Take for example casting. Whoever thought that was actually a style or a technique. Problem is you're prone to breaking your hand.

Ultimately it deals with the situation.

Whatever suits you or suits the situation. As long as it works...



I agree 100%..
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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One of the more common physics debates in karate relates to proper punching. In this debate, there are two common schools of thought:
1)karate punches are strongest at full extension and teach “following though” as a power component; vs.
2)karate strikes are strongest at approximately 75% extension. I put the information from Walker (FN1) forward not opining my own calculations, but merely to report the results of this article and synthesize the stated results with common practice.

Last edited by dmark : 10-20-2012 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't feel like punching that way is as powerful. I think curious1 hit the nail on the head, in that, vertical fist is more pushy and lacks snap. That said, I like to throw vertical-fisted uppercuts sometimes, since the twisting of the fist (or lack there of) doesn't affect the mechanics of the punch at all. It definitely does slip through people's guards better.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin View Post
I don't feel like punching that way is as powerful. I think curious1 hit the nail on the head, in that, vertical fist is more pushy and lacks snap. That said, I like to throw vertical-fisted uppercuts sometimes, since the twisting of the fist (or lack there of) doesn't affect the mechanics of the punch at all. It definitely does slip through people's guards better.
That's not always the case. Jack Dempsey was a fan of jabbing with a vertical fist. Then again, he usually accompanied it with a substantial drop step. In which case, the power was from definitely more from the feet up.

Then again, correctly applied physics would increase the force of any punch substantially.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kin View Post
I don't feel like punching that way is as powerful. I think curious1 hit the nail on the head, in that, vertical fist is more pushy and lacks snap. That said, I like to throw vertical-fisted uppercuts sometimes, since the twisting of the fist (or lack there of) doesn't affect the mechanics of the punch at all. It definitely does slip through people's guards better.
I think Kin is more or less right on the money here. I've been drilling my boxing intensely for the last few months, and one of the things that I've realized is how big a difference rotating the hands makes in enforcing the power and speed of the punch, because it forces turning over the shoulder and the hips. If that turnover is managed in a time-efficient way, then the punch is really very effective.

As far as penetrating the guard, I've never been partial to banging in against my opponent's hands while they're keeping the guard up, and in MMA it seems like a massive waste of energy. If you're comfortable with it and get good penetration on the punches, then that's great. If it works for you, go with it.

My preference is to force the change in position of the guard, or to attack around it. One of the things that I've been working on with my hands is attacking different regions of the face, particularly the ears and temples through the typical guard. Even with the big boxing gloves, I've found that if I don't try to penetrate the guard looking for the button, but focus instead on areas that aren't immediately protected, I can create the kind of holes that I want to get those shots in on the nose or the orbitals. [And for those who are more focussed on striking the face, rather than going to the body, this is a good alternative, since it doesn't require a change to the body blow stuff.]
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onganju View Post
That's not always the case. Jack Dempsey was a fan of jabbing with a vertical fist. Then again, he usually accompanied it with a substantial drop step. In which case, the power was from definitely more from the feet up.

Then again, correctly applied physics would increase the force of any punch substantially.
Yeah, I think thats a case of him generating power from the ground, more so than it being about his hand positioning.

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I think Kin is more or less right on the money here. I've been drilling my boxing intensely for the last few months, and one of the things that I've realized is how big a difference rotating the hands makes in enforcing the power and speed of the punch, because it forces turning over the shoulder and the hips. If that turnover is managed in a time-efficient way, then the punch is really very effective.

As far as penetrating the guard, I've never been partial to banging in against my opponent's hands while they're keeping the guard up, and in MMA it seems like a massive waste of energy. If you're comfortable with it and get good penetration on the punches, then that's great. If it works for you, go with it.

My preference is to force the change in position of the guard, or to attack around it. One of the things that I've been working on with my hands is attacking different regions of the face, particularly the ears and temples through the typical guard. Even with the big boxing gloves, I've found that if I don't try to penetrate the guard looking for the button, but focus instead on areas that aren't immediately protected, I can create the kind of holes that I want to get those shots in on the nose or the orbitals. [And for those who are more focussed on striking the face, rather than going to the body, this is a good alternative, since it doesn't require a change to the body blow stuff.]
I like to bang on their gloves before I attack at a different level. Partially to mess with their balance and partially to mask the body punch.

I need to try aiming for more specific areas. I'm really guilty of aiming for the general target, and my accuracy suffers as a result of that sometimes.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin View Post
I like to bang on their gloves before I attack at a different level. Partially to mess with their balance and partially to mask the body punch.

I need to try aiming for more specific areas. I'm really guilty of aiming for the general target, and my accuracy suffers as a result of that sometimes.
One of the things that my boxing coaches have been working with me on is not thinking too much about "head" v. "body" but trying to consider my punches and target them more particularly. It is, admittedly, still a work in progress, but I've found that a lot of my work with the double-end bags have gone a long way to helping me think about it that way, as has more complex approaches to the mitts.

I agree about banging on the gloves before going to the body, though one of the things that I'm working on is using the body shots off of some of the more dramatic slips, especially where my opponent over-extends with a cross or something like that. There are lots of ways of approaching the body, and one of the big things for me is just to stop thinking about the "body-punch" as necessarily a hook to the ribs, and understand it as something more multivalent, much like thinking about regions of the face, though with more focus on angle of entry of the punch. Anyway, it's just a thought.
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