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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-17-2007, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Takedown Defense

Yes, I know that this thread exists on page 9 in the grappling section, but I'd like to revitalize it here. Similar to the clinch, even though grappling is involved, I consider TD defense to be more of a standup thing.

Anyway, I'd just like to here people's thoughts on TD defense, their favorite methods against defending various takedowns, and so on.

Though I like sprawling, since it works well and gives me the chance to spin and take my opponents back, I prefer another method if I'm intent on keeping the fight standing at all costs. Its called the 'angle out & pop' method, and I'm surprised by how few people know of it. It works great for defending against someone who's shooting for the legs.

Rather than sprawling, you skip your legs away from your opponent's reach at an angle. If you go straight back, you'll do nothing but prolong the takedown. The second part of this maneuver is equally simple. You just push both arms against your opponents head or shoulders. If done correctly, this sends your opponent falling facefirst into the mat -- or leaves him very offbalanced at the very LEAST.

This is because of two things. First and foremost, you're out of the proverbial line of fire. As such, your adversary can do nothing more than fly by you. But wait! Couldn't he make a last-second adjustment or reach out and grab you anyways? No -- not if you've adequately performed the 'pop.' Your little shove locks your opponent on his original course, and prevents him from turning towards you. However, it doesn't really halt his momentum. Thus, its quite difficult for him to NOT go spiralling off-balance.

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 11:12 PM
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-20-2007, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike123
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intellegent...

anyway i think this is some usefull information ^^ i will deffinately look into this and try it in practice

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 04:44 AM
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So your idea of td defense is just to stay away from them? Lol. If someone shoots at you and grabs you it's hard to just "move out of the way." Sprawling is used when you are UNABLE to just simply move away.




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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 11:53 AM
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hmmm you can kinda do this in wrestling but they can post your arms up and reshoot since your arms are extending. i prefer to down block by placing one hand on the mat and moving the leg back they are shooting on and blocking the shot with my head and other arm....
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wukkadb
So your idea of td defense is just to stay away from them? Lol. If someone shoots at you and grabs you it's hard to just "move out of the way." Sprawling is used when you are UNABLE to just simply move away.
Wukkadb, please note that this is ONE method of takedown defense, which is appropriate for certain circumstances and certain intents. Sprawling is another method, which fits different intentions.

Nonetheless, you clearly misunderstand what the angle and pop is -- as is evident in your comment. Yes, it ishard to just "move out of the way" after someone has already grabbed you. In fact, it is impossible to do so. But there lies the point. The method I've described is done to prevent yourself from even being grabbed. For that matter, a sprawl also works MUCH better if its done before being grabbed. =P

But one last time, I'd like to emphasize that the angle and pop is much more than simply staying away. Yes, half of it is evasion through footwork. However, that alone would not be enough, since someone can obviously change directions. But, if you're applying that pressure to their head, they are locked in their original shot.


If you are unclear on how this works, I'd suggest you re-read the starting post of this topic. But, anyways...

While the angle and pop does not necessarily place you in a definitively advantageous position, it has no less merit than -- say -- stepping away from a strike. While one might step away from a dangerous blow, so as not to risk the consequences of failing a more complicated action, it does nothing to advance the defender's position. As opposed to a more active means of defense, stepping backwards does not place you in position for an easy counter attack. All it does is reset the placement of the combatants, putting returning them to the neutral range/circumstance before any blow was thrown -- but without risk.

However, keep in mind that shooting can get tiring. So by utilizing the angle and pop method, you drain more and more of your adversary's energy with each of their failed attempts. A sprawl, on the other hand, can be easily followed up by then taking your opponent's back or locking him into a dominating clinch (thai clinch or front headlock). As such, it is a prime choice if you'd like to counter attack after their failed shot. If you're the methodical type, putting these two defenses together can yield very favorable results. The angle and pop tires them out, and when you find that your opponent has lost a bit of his gusto, you can sprawl and counter against a weakened foe.

Though, there is another merit of using the angle and pop on its own. Following its success, your opponent may end up on the ground with you standing over him. If this is the case, and he does not regain footing soon enough, you can attempt to pass his guard and/or ground and pound. The alternative to a successful angle and pop is, again, restarting in a neutral position... Albeit, you haven't lost as much energy as your opponent within this exchange.

Again, I'm not trying to sell the angle and pop as the ONLY method for takedown defense. That would be as rediculous as advocating the use of only one type of block. I just wanted to address a very viable option for defending takedowns, since this one isn't very famous.

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Originally Posted by TheSuplexor
hmmm you can kinda do this in wrestling but they can post your arms up and reshoot since your arms are extending...
Though it might seem that way, they actually won't be able to. Your opponent will generally have to touch a hand to the ground to save his balance and you're hands wont be on him for long. By the time his hands are available again, yours should be gone and you ought to be out of range.

Still, thanks for your input. I'd like to experiment with the way that you mentioned. Should my knees be on the ground when I'm doing this? Or, if not, could you describe the correct leg placement?

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Last edited by Kin; 08-02-2007 at 06:21 PM.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 04:55 PM
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To me it sounds like your stating the obvious but trying to put it into a lot of words making it sound complicated and advanced. Basically what you're saying is don't move straight back, but move to the side? To me it just seems like you have no formal training, have never wrestled, and don't know what it's like to actually grapple with someone. I use this "angle and pop" method vs my little brother all the time, but it only works vs him, because his shoot is terrible and I'm way bigger, stronger, and faster than him. If you were to try your method vs an experienced wrestler you would get taken down probably every time.




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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wukkadb
To me it sounds like your stating the obvious but trying to put it into a lot of words making it sound complicated and advanced. Basically what you're saying is don't move straight back, but move to the side? To me it just seems like you have no formal training, have never wrestled, and don't know what it's like to actually grapple with someone. I use this "angle and pop" method vs my little brother all the time, but it only works vs him, because his shoot is terrible and I'm way bigger, stronger, and faster than him. If you were to try your method vs an experienced wrestler you would get taken down probably every time.
You'd get half-credit if you at least interpreted the footwork correctly.

I didn't even say move to the side. I said to move back, at a diagonal angle. Sideways doesn't work. But still, you missed a very important point, which I tried to stress. You ALSO shove your opponent's head away with stiff arms.

It's a shame that, to you, it seems I have no training. But then again, considering your other deductions so far, I shouldn't take it too personally.

I have a submission wrestling class available to me 3 times a week, though I usually only go to it on monday and wednesday. I do judo on sundays.

You're right about one thing, though. I have never wrestled -- in the highschool wrestling sense.

EDIT: also, I'm not trying to make anything sound advanced. What I am trying to do is to be thorough in my description, and cover as much as possible. But in the future, I'll do my best to be more concise since my posting has been almost gratiutously long as of late.

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Last edited by Kin; 08-02-2007 at 05:16 PM.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin
You'd get half-credit if you at least interpreted the footwork correctly.

I didn't even say move to the side. I said to move back, at a diagonal angle. Sideways doesn't work. But still, you missed a very important point, which I tried to stress. You ALSO shove your opponent's head away with stiff arms.

It's a shame that, to you, it seems I have no training. But then again, considering your other deductions so far, I shouldn't take it too personally.

I have a submission wrestling class available to me 3 times a week, though I usually only go to it on monday and wednesday. I do judo on sundays.

You're right about one thing, though. I have never wrestled -- in the highschool wrestling sense.

EDIT: also, I'm not trying to make anything sound advanced. What I am trying to do is to be thorough in my description, and cover as much as possible. But in the future, I'll do my best to be more concise since my posting has been almost gratiutously long as of late.
Ok, so your advice to avoid a TD is move out of the way diagonally and then push their head to the ground? I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but you're just stating the obvious man.




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