Southpaw stance vs. Dragon Stance - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Southpaw stance vs. Dragon Stance

I know southpaw is pretty standard but I feel Dragon stance is far superior, at least for me and my fighting style. It is extermely mobile, powerfully rooted, and strongly defensive. Feet are kept at 45 degrees with toes in a straight line. 40% on front leg 60% on back.



What are your thoughts on its application in the octagon?
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i dunno....it looks pretty straight....like the body is in one line......that could make the front leg extremely susceptible to thai kicks...also the kung fu (i'm assuming kung fu....don't hate me if i got it wrong) hand positioning looks very far in front of the head, and the left hand...even though i'm assuming it's protecting the body, leaves the left side of the head open for kicks/punches...the weight distribution seems alright

as for the octogan....i dunno i think there are some practical merits of kung fu but this stance doesn't really seem to have a whole lot of mma practicality....perhaps if you modified it a bit...i dunno

don't mean to sound like a dick....those are just my obversations
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I hope I am not coming off as closed to discussion on the stance, I would like to hear opinions from other disciples so I may add to my art.

Yes, it is kung fu. It is ba gua, one of the 3 major internal styles. The mobility of the stance is excellent and you can tell it's very different than most stances with the Tiger Crouch of the upper body and the knees. The mobility will allow you to gain an advantage in positioning to protect weak side of the defense to the head and protruding leg. As long as you are quicker, footwork is the major focus in ba gua. If I lost position to where I couldn't avoid shots to weak side I would change to Bear system and take advantage. The system is based on quickly adapting to any situation.

If you have strong hips you should try to assume to the stance and move from it. This will give you some idea of the mobility, but a lot of its speed comes from very internal aspects. Here is a short page on the stance if you would want to try it Pa Kua Chang (Ba Gua Zhang) Kung Fu: 804-794-8384 [FYI Page - #8]
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It seems like the major weaknesses as for its usage in MMA is that its pretty open for body kicks, plus if that guy gets hit with a leg kick, he's dead.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The thing about "fast footwork" is that when the center of gravity (your hips) is extended too far from being in-line with your base (your feet), it doesn't work well with balance. In fact, part of the reason why this stance may seem stable to practitioners of the style is that the arms are acting as a counter balance. Getting the arms to move fast, in either a defensive or offensive nature, doesn't seem to allow for a lot of immediate power as the center of mass has to be brought in line with the rest of the body and legs.

The things I can point out right off the top of my head:
  • Too susceptible to the shot. The legs are in-line and the knees are in close proximity to each other, making a double a prime option. The weight is mostly on the back leg making the ability to sprawl effectively difficult.
  • Again, the center of gravity is not in-line to your base. In the world of Judoka, you've done half of their work for them as they don't have to jockey for kuzushi. The principles of dynamics play into their hands making throws easy, mostly to the back rear corners or to the sides.
  • Leg kicks have been addressed.
  • Body kicks have been addresed.

If I were coaching someone and I saw that their opponent got into that stance, I would advice them to jab and then double it. It's a chinese style, so in-line punches and such should bait response (parries and footwork, followed by trapping and counters). After the 2nd double jab I tell him to jab then low kick. After the 2nd low kick connects (if it goes that far/well), I'd advise to fake the jab and then shoot the double. In which case, if the opponent is moving backwards in that stance they cannot sprawl. If they are countering and moving forward, their legs are such close proximity they can not only be taken down, but lifted and slammed.

I would adjust the stance by widening the feet and making sure that the hips aren't so far back. Yes, it will stand taller and straighter, but direct access to power from the ground up is more readily available. I'd bring the front hand back about 8 to 12 inches and hold it in the same level. Rear arm I would bring back also about 4 to 6 inches and raise it so that it is closer to head height. At least in this way the elbows are closer to the body to act as barriers to body attack, and they are readily coiled to unleash powerful strikes without being too dependant on footwork.

I'm no expert, but that's my oppinion.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Nobody can really prove either one better for the reason no great fighter has used dragon stance.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boxing>MMA
Nobody can really prove either one better for the reason no great fighter has used dragon stance.
I'd take the fact that nobody uses dragon stance to mean it isn't good for MMA. The same reason no one uses Capoiera because its not effective in an MMA enviroment. Of course not being the greatest for MMA mean nothing about its aplication for self defence and real world situations.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'd take the fact that nobody uses dragon stance to mean it isn't good for MMA. The same reason no one uses Capoiera because its not effective in an MMA enviroment. Of course not being the greatest for MMA mean nothing about its aplication for self defence and real world situations.
That is saying that every fighter who is great in the world is in MMA fighting which isn't true.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boxing>MMA
That is saying that every fighter who is great in the world is in MMA fighting which isn't true.
No its not saying that but if a technique was great for MMA competition then people would adopt that technique into their training. I don't doubt that Dragon stance is good for self defence like it was originally designed for but the question was how is this stance for MMA (or something like that) which is why I said what I said.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxing>MMA
That is saying that every fighter who is great in the world is in MMA fighting which isn't true.

With a name like Boxing>MMA, I expected such a stupid answer. AdRath already explained what he's said. So I don't need to re-establish it.
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