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Old 10-27-2006, 12:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation What is the Tao of the Knock-out?

My boss at work raised a question last week that I thought about and decided to present here. It goes like this:some of the guys who work in the back are true MMA enthusiasts.They go to as many matches as they can, they bet on their favorites.The whole nine yards.
Last week during break, they were discussing a match that they had attended and my boss interrupted their discussion with a question that had me thinking.See, he is old enough to remember movies like the old Mr. Moto movies that Chuck Norris says inspired him,my boss is old enough to remember the Spencer Tracy movie Bad Day at Black Rock.My boss is old enough to remember the cult TV series The Avengers with Diana Rigg as the unbelievably hot Mrs. Emma Peel-Mrs. Peel would just hit an enemy spy once with a karate chop and it would be all over! her opponent would be decked!
All of those movies were like that!Spencer Tracy hit the villain once and he went down!
Slight little diminutive little Mr. Moto would hit hit his much much larger opponent once and the guy would go down.My boss was saying that that was what he was led to believe that the martial arts were about:knowledge of the human body and its vulnerable spots,that if you knew the right spot to hit the right way, that person was going down,no matter how big or strong they were. So my questions are:
1.How would you respond to my boss's question:Why isn't it like that in the MMA? He is saying, if these guys are true martial artists, how come it isn't like a Mr. Moto flick,say,and one guy just hits the other guy once, and it's all over?
2.More importantly:What is the Tao of the Knock-out? I feel like I should clairfy one point here: I am not a fighter. I have never been in a ring of any kind in my life, nor do I ever intend to. I am a musician/poet/artist/creative person. As I posted in the thread Which is better Muy Thai or Kung Fu, I have spent all of my adult life avoiding fights and situations that lead to fights.My interest in the martial arts stems from a series of incidents which have occurred in the local mall,one of which was this:Somebody I know went into a store with his girlfriend to buy a bottle of Chardonnay,which she happened to like a lot. Unfortunately,they unknowingly picked gang initiation night to do this.They walked into a hold-up in progress,whereupon the punks decided to add them to the night's fun.They hospitalized both of them, and they gang-raped the girl.Thus, I see that, no matter how one lives one's life, the possibility exists that you will find yourself in a position where you have to fight to protect the people you cherish. I am thinking that in a situation such as the one that i have just described, you can't go ten rounds with anybody. You have to do it like Spencer Tracy or Mr. Moto or Mrts. Peel or whomever- you've got one shot at your opponent and you'd better make it good!
Agree? or disagree?
And what is the Tao of the Knock-out? What are the parameters of this equation?
What does determine whether somebody gets knocked-out or not? And why aren't there more out and out knock-outs in the MMA if all of these guys are martial artists?Sincerely,Ferdelance
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Old 10-27-2006, 08:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't know exactly what your question is, but I think I know what you're talking about.

It really depends on the initial strike. If you are using the big right hand it's about get the full weight of your legs behind the blow and getting all of the power you can out of it.

If you're throwing that big kick or the knee then it's about getting some serious power from the ground and driving it into your oponents skull.

The word that you're using "Tao" (Chinese "way") then the real way of the knock out is using the legs. The legs are the largest and strongest muscles that we use in fighting, which is why they are heavily used in BJJ. If you get your legs behind the strike then you're putting alot more power into the strike.
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Old 10-27-2006, 09:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1)Tell your boss it isn't like that because that is a movie. Tell it's the same reason all our wars aren't like John Wayne movies.
2)IronMan is correct. Respect.

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Old 11-02-2006, 08:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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first and foremost those where fictional events...it wasnt real...

second if u happened to be in a fight (a real fight not an mma match) then ur best shots are eyes, throat, groin, knees...u know everything thats illegal in MMA cause its too dangerous should be ur main focus....there are ways to end fights quick its not what they had in movies with Mr Moto but it doesnt mean that what u see in an MMA match is the best choice in a real fight where there are no rules and no specific targets....
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Realistically, the Art of the KO usually breaks down to a few things:

1) Power and Speed
2) Accuracy
3) Timing

Of those three things, Power and Speed can be trained exclusively. This is simply done by routinely and repetitively punching, kicking, etc. a suitable target. However, this is also an aspect that will plateau in development very quickly without knowledgeable instruction. Without instruction to refine technique, your "sunday punch" may be something that looks powerful, but may lack anything meaningful in terms of fighting application.

Accuracy and Timing are probably the two most important factors aside from pure Force that define a clean Knock Out shot. Accuracy can be trained at very minimal level exclusively. Timing can not be trained at all on an exclusive level. The reason why the two are so important can simply be explained like this:

1) You can have the fastest and strongest attacks in the world, but if you miss it doesn't matter.
2) You can have the fastest and strongest attacks in the world, but if you attack at the wrong moment where it is easy to defend against (too soon/telegraphed), or where it has no chance of hitting (too late late, opponent is already defending) it doesn't matter either.

Accuracy and Timing can only be trained in live conditions with a partner through constant drilling and sparring. No opponent can be expected to stand in front of you as a static target or jump in front of your attacks abandon of any concern about you counter attacking. I know of no active competitor in MMA that prescribes to the "Black Ninja" style of combat either. In light of that, drilling with actual combat situations in mind and sparring to create as close to a combat situation as possible are the only known ways of tempering one's accuracy or sense of timing.

In light of that, as others have said previously, the aforementioned Mr. Moto is a fictional character. Live fights between trained combatants do not resemble the "Big Screen Ballet" that many movies put forth on display. Hell, I can probably contend that the guys in "West Side Story" probably have it just as hard (if not harder) than any Movie artial Artist.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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chin jaw button....nerve endings their rattle your brain and you go to sleep

have to hit them hard enough though

and go for the throat if it comes down to it...if you kill the head the body will die
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Rock the head man. Look at the knockout blows in pride slo-mos (CC's left high kick). The head gets jarred and the neck goes loose. Once the head moves fast enough back and forth, the reciever get's KTFO. Legs are big and have the most weight. Remember your inertia rule with speed squared*mass. More inertia, more KO potential.
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Old 12-09-2006, 01:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdelance
.My boss was saying that that was what he was led to believe that the martial arts were about:knowledge of the human body and its vulnerable spots,that if you knew the right spot to hit the right way, that person was going down,no matter how big or strong they were.
Read up on and study old school fighters like Archie Moore and Benny Leonard who where KO artist, by design. They had the knowledge you are asking about. They knew exactly WHEN and WHERE and HOW to hit a man to effectively hurt and eventually KO them.
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Old 03-07-2007, 03:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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rear chokes are a great knockout technique, especially if the guy hasn't got game....it's relatively easy to apply if you've trained it and won't do permanent damage

I put oit on a bigger guy (about 250 lbs) and it was simple.... he threw a haymaker, I slipped in under it, got behind him and 10 secs later he was sleeping
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Old 03-07-2007, 03:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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rear chokes are a great knockout technique, especially if the guy hasn't got game....it's relatively easy to apply if you've trained it and won't do permanent damage

I put it on a bigger guy (about 250 lbs) and it was simple.... he threw a haymaker, I slipped in under it, got behind him and 10 secs later he was sleeping
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