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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 06:02 AM
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Instead of risking not adressing the actual question at hand, i will first refer to them directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northcoastmma
i was talking to my bjj coach who also hasdone some muay thai and he said pretty much outside of muay thai elbows arent that effective at knocking people out.
I tend to agree. As pointed out previously, unless the elbow strike is delivered with the point of the elbow making contact then the surface area involved is too big and the power is disipated over that area. Ok, I agree that a properly delivered elbow strike contact would be made with the point of the elbow, but realistically, unless you are in a position to strike with the elbow in a downward motion, then atleast some forearm will be involved.

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Originally Posted by northcoastmma
he told me even in muay thai knockouts from an elbow strike are pretty rare.
Again this has been previously covered in this thread and all I can say is your instructor is correct.

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Originally Posted by northcoastmma
are elbows effective or do most guys just use them to open cuts.
To this I would say that yes they are a very effective weapon. At close distance the power that can be generated is tremendous. And unfortunately I have to say yes, most guys (especially in the UFC and other such orgs.)use elbows to open cuts or to work on an exsisting cut. I personally hate seeing fights end due to cuts and intentionally trying to cut on someone, I feel (YES, MY OPINION) is a cheap way out.

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Originally Posted by northcoastmma
where are they most effective.
They are especially effective in San Diego, Santa Cruz ... LOL No, Seriously, they are most effective anytime you are in close quarters. Whether standing or on the ground. They are extremely effective when you are in a position above your opponent and can rain the elbows down on your opponent making contact with the point of the elbow. Illegal in the UFC.


Now with all of this said, I find my elbows to be an extremely effective weapon and have knocked a couple people out with them. Now it was in street fights against untrained fighters. They come rushing in and elbow straight to the temple, and down they went. I have broken several noses with elbows and I have broken a guys collarbone with an elbow strike. He was on his knees in front of me and I drove the elbow straight down into the top of his shoulder. Not the ball at the end of the shoulder but the space between the shoulder and the neck. Broke his clavicle in two places. He screamed and the fight was over. He just laid there and cried like a little girl. So yes. Elbow strikes are a very effective weapon and you should train them like you train every other weapon in your personal aresenol. But are they gonna be your big knock out weapon, probably not.

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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
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They are amazing in side control. Gsp does that. He pounds at thier face in side control thier also very good in the triangle, as you saw with anderson vs lutter. In the clinch thier very good, i nice rapid shot to the face. I think elbows are pretty good. I wont use them unless im in side control, but my dad tells me every time he got into a fight he'd elbow.

You might wanna see this video.


YouTube - Andrson Silva standing elbow KO
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 04:31 PM
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By the laws of physics, elbows cannot be as good at KOing people as punches or kicks. A punch or kick if applied properly has your entire body behind it. With a high kick for example, you pivot your foot and rotate your hips. The kick is not coming out of your leg muscles, but out of the rotation of your entire body. Thats a lot of force, and force is what causes knockouts, the more mass you can deliver on the target, the higher the probability of a KO. To KO someone, you have to make their brain knock back and forth in their skull. Even if you can put more energy behind an elbow strike, it's still only the mass of your arm. Lets say an arm weighs around 8kg, maybe 10. Imagine hitting someone in the head as hard as you can with an 8kg club (would prolly knock them out still, but thats due to a different principle). Now compare that to hitting someone in the head as hard as you can with a 60-80 kg club. Which one do you think would be more likely to KO someone?
Elbows are great because they can break bones fairly easily, and come especially in handy during street fight, but they don't have the KO power a well placed punch will have.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2007, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lukas-
By the laws of physics, elbows cannot be as good at KOing people as punches or kicks. A punch or kick if applied properly has your entire body behind it. With a high kick for example, you pivot your foot and rotate your hips. The kick is not coming out of your leg muscles, but out of the rotation of your entire body. Thats a lot of force, and force is what causes knockouts, the more mass you can deliver on the target, the higher the probability of a KO. To KO someone, you have to make their brain knock back and forth in their skull. Even if you can put more energy behind an elbow strike, it's still only the mass of your arm. Lets say an arm weighs around 8kg, maybe 10. Imagine hitting someone in the head as hard as you can with an 8kg club (would prolly knock them out still, but thats due to a different principle). Now compare that to hitting someone in the head as hard as you can with a 60-80 kg club. Which one do you think would be more likely to KO someone?
Elbows are great because they can break bones fairly easily, and come especially in handy during street fight, but they don't have the KO power a well placed punch will have.
The thing about elbows (and any strike) is that when you are trained properly to throw them, you will involve your whole body mass. That is the case with any strike whether it be a punch, kick, knee, etc. However, you will not be able to pin-point an elbow to the "sweet spots" with the same regularity as a punch or kick. The range of motion, and reach make it close to impossible wich is why you aren't going to see someone getting knocked out from an elbow to the ribs, liver, or solar plexus (all which can be attacked by punches or kicks with regularity in stand-up outside the clinch).

However, if you elbow someone in the base of the skull, temple, or jaw you can put someone out just are dependablly as a punch. You chances are probably even higher in a clinch or on the ground, because you don't have the needed distance for the punch to accelerate to generate the same force.

As stated before, each has its place. You're not going to try to elbow someone when you can only reach them with a punch, and you're not going to try to punch someone in a tight clinch expecting to see a lot of damage done. Again, you're not going to use a saw when you need a hammer right?

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