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Old 01-03-2012, 07:21 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I just watched Bas Ruttens 'Lethal Street Fighting Techniques' a few weeks back. He shows some awesome techniques for getting out of headlocks and chokes ect.

Its well worth watching, if just for the comedy factor that only Bas can provide

Also, Judo would be good thing to know. Most street fights I see the fight always seems to end up in some kind of standing grapple, one guy trying to get a headlock on and the other trying trip the other guy.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:28 AM   #32 (permalink)
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fighting ppl on the steet i'd say muay thai. but the standing guillotine is pretty good for one on one fights where a guy charges you head down, if you have it locked in well you can drop to guard and choke him out. but this works one on one only. best bet? avoid fighting!!!! these days guys come back to stab and shoot
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Muai thai might not be worthless but like I said judo is superior for the street and the choke, headlock escapes are judo as well.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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1 on 1 i think wrestling >>>>>> everything. A good wrestler just takes the guy down and pounds out anyone.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post
Muai thai might not be worthless but like I said judo is superior for the street and the choke, headlock escapes are judo as well.
Judo or any grappling sucks for multiple opponents, you start to grapple with one guy and the rest will beat the living crap out of you, but while striking you can keep distance and pick your shots at all of them if you're good. For that reason alone, MT is way better than Judo or grappling for the streets.

Not to mention Judo hasn't translated as well to MMA so it's hard to know it's effectiveness for sure. Part of that may be because of lack of a gi or clothes for leverage, but even so it's hard to know it's true effectiveness without as significant a presence in MMA, but we've all seen time and again in MMA how brutal a good Muay Thai fighter can be.

So while judo may not be worthless, Muay Thai is superior for the streets.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:05 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Haha these fakeass punks don't "shoot" or "stab" they're a bunch of scared pussies they act like it and claim some stupid ass crew and everyone knows they don't gangbang. If you go to LA high school, then it's a completely different story
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Btw these guys only swing like apeshit. They don't throw kicks or grapples, they're like the mexicans that fight on youtube, you know with the shitty camera and all u see is 2 guys tryna windmill the crap out of each other.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
Judo or any grappling sucks for multiple opponents, you start to grapple with one guy and the rest will beat the living crap out of you, but while striking you can keep distance and pick your shots at all of them if you're good. For that reason alone, MT is way better than Judo or grappling for the streets.

Not to mention Judo hasn't translated as well to MMA so it's hard to know it's effectiveness for sure. Part of that may be because of lack of a gi or clothes for leverage, but even so it's hard to know it's true effectiveness without as significant a presence in MMA, but we've all seen time and again in MMA how brutal a good Muay Thai fighter can be.

So while judo may not be worthless, Muay Thai is superior for the streets.
Out of experience I have to support slapshot here. The thing is, boxing is quite a natural skill. EVERYBODY can throw a punch just by instinct, but most people DON'T know how to use leverage in fighting. So while you can raise your chances in striking by training there will always be a certain luck factor and strength does play a significant role (that's why untechnical brawlers with great strength do have some success particularly in HW), this is not nearly the case in grappling related fighting. In grappling there is almost no luck factor and a strength disadvantage can be equalized due to leverage using techniques. So if you're physically as strong or stronger than your opponent, you will probably do quite well with Muay Thai, but if you face a bigger opponent your pure striking skills will help you less while grappling skills wouldn't lose as much of their efficiency.

Cloths in everyday life do make a huge difference to sweaty slippery almost nakedness in competition. First, the friction of the cloths will make throws a lot easier. Second, the cloths themselves can be grabbed to manipulate the (movement of the) opponent. And third, we're probably not talking about elite MMAists who train hard to counter takedowns as opponents on the street, but the average aggressive jerk who usually doesn't train counter grappling.

Then concerning your first remark. No offense, but I guess you have never seen how fast a throw from a Judo/Jiu Jitsu practitioner on a non-grappling trained opponent is. You don't "start to grapple", you just throw him, in case of multiple opponents preferable in their way. Also, it's a psychological thing. Everyone who starts a street fight expects to get punched, but most people don't expect to get thrown, so when you start to throw your opponent he will probably be surprised and not know how to react. Also, a throw is generally a more damaging unarmed technique than a punch, because you make your environment the "weapon". Throwing someone on a mat or suspended floor in a sports environment is something completely different to throw someone on concrete or hard objects like a fire hydrant, street curb, car edge or metal fence. In winter lots of people break their bones by just slipping on icy ground, now imagine what happens if you add the force of a throw.

Also, in Jiu Jitsu (not McDojo) you learn strategies for multiple opponents and weapon involved fighting.

I do recommend though to also train some Muay Thai as it's never bad to have good boxing skills and low kicks and knees are also good weapons most not specificly trained people don't expect.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:15 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voiceless View Post
Out of experience I have to support slapshot here. The thing is, boxing is quite a natural skill. EVERYBODY can throw a punch just by instinct, but most people DON'T know how to use leverage in fighting. So while you can raise your chances in striking by training there will always be a certain luck factor and strength does play a significant role (that's why untechnical brawlers with great strength do have some success particularly in HW), this is not nearly the case in grappling related fighting. In grappling there is almost no luck factor and a strength disadvantage can be equalized due to leverage using techniques. So if you're physically as strong or stronger than your opponent, you will probably do quite well with Muay Thai, but if you face a bigger opponent your pure striking skills will help you less while grappling skills wouldn't lose as much of their efficiency.

Cloths in everyday life do make a huge difference to sweaty slippery almost nakedness in competition. First, the friction of the cloths will make throws a lot easier. Second, the cloths themselves can be grabbed to manipulate the (movement of the) opponent. And third, we're probably not talking about elite MMAists who train hard to counter takedowns as opponents on the street, but the average aggressive jerk who usually doesn't train counter grappling.

Then concerning your first remark. No offense, but I guess you have never seen how fast a throw from a Judo/Jiu Jitsu practitioner on a non-grappling trained opponent is. You don't "start to grapple", you just throw him, in case of multiple opponents preferable in their way. Also, it's a psychological thing. Everyone who starts a street fight expects to get punched, but most people don't expect to get thrown, so when you start to throw your opponent he will probably be surprised and not know how to react. Also, a throw is generally a more damaging unarmed technique than a punch, because you make your environment the "weapon". Throwing someone on a mat or suspended floor in a sports environment is something completely different to throw someone on concrete or hard objects like a fire hydrant, street curb, car edge or metal fence. In winter lots of people break their bones by just slipping on icy ground, now imagine what happens if you add the force of a throw.

Also, in Jiu Jitsu (not McDojo) you learn strategies for multiple opponents and weapon involved fighting.

I do recommend though to also train some Muay Thai as it's never bad to have good boxing skills and low kicks and knees are also good weapons most not specificly trained people don't expect.
Your statement is so far away from reality, I wonder what kind of made up experience you even have, if any. Everyone knows how to throw a punch? Please watch these and all other Kimbo Slice street fight videos and repeat your statement:



And these are guys that actually have probably fought a few times. The average guy DOES NOT know how to punch, they know how to WINDMILL, which is absolute garbage against even the most basic boxer, which is what Kimbo is.

On the contrary, everyone knows how to grapple to some extent by instinct. Take a look at any schoolyard bully fight and see what happens ... the first instinct is to bullrush and mount. Leverage will not help you as much when your opponent is much bigger than you, ever tried to grapple with a well built 300 lb guy? Unless you get a trip really fast, the guy will inevitably bullrush you and your technique in 2 secs and pound you into the pavement, technique or no technique. Even if you do trip him, good luck holding down a guy with much size differential. And Royce Gracie type stuff from the bottom won't help as much when the can gouge, claw and fishhook you.

A good boxer/MT striker however will have the biggest untrained thug turtling up within 3 hard punches, when the thug realizes his slow windmill punches aren't even going to faze the boxer while he puts knots on their head.

Every Kimbo slice fight reinforces this simple basic truth, all kimbo has is the basics of boxing and his opponents all look like they're going to piss right after they get hit with the very first punch. They expect a weak windmill, when they feel the power of a real punch, they practically shit themselves.

TBH You sound like a typical TMA guy that has never been in a real fight and is all opinion.
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