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Strength & Power Training Discussion of strength training as part of your MMA conditioning program.

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Old 05-10-2007, 08:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Strength & Power Training

First and foremost, this thread was created by me to share information and hopefully enlighten some souls, please don't take it personally like I'm shoving it down your throat. You can disagree if you want but all of my thread is backed by evidence/links.

I feel the need to enlighten the many who are unaware of how to properly train for STRENGTH and POWER in regards to MMA/Martial Arts. It seems that a lot of people are stuck in the bodybuilding type routines, which is fine and dandy if you're into bodybuilding, but it doesn't transition or apply very well to martial arts. First off, let me point out some of the essential basics:

#1) You should not ever have a day where you are working out your biceps (example: "Oh yeah, today is biceps and triceps!" <--No.)
#2) Isolation exercises are BAD!!
#3) Looking big/cut does not equal being strong
#4) If you're doing crunches to get a 6-pack, you're gay
#5) You NEED to be doing squats, overhead presses, deadlifts, dips, and pull-ups.
#6) No more calf raises, leg extensions, or hamstring curls.

Now, here are a couple EXAMPLES of ways to split up your workout (these routines are primarily aimed at getting STRONGER, having a better core, and developing your posterior chain)

Example 1: 3 day Split
This is the current split I do, and is broken into a PULL day, a PRESS day, and a SQUAT day.

example Pull Day:
Deadlifts: 5x3
*5x3 means doing 5 sets of 3 reps, make sure the weight is heavy.

Wide grip pullups: BWx3x5
*Work your way up with these then start adding weight onto your pullups

Bent Over Rows:
135x3x5

Some other excercises you can do on your pull day are: Zercher deadlifts, shrugs, reverse curls, hammer curls, wrist curls, Z and chin ups.

example Press Day:

Bench Press:5x5

Overhead Press/PushPress:95x1x8
125x1x4
135x1x2
125x1x4

Dips:BWx3x10
*Just like pull-ups, you can use the weight belt for dips as you get stronger

Close Grip Bench:4x4

Other exercises you can use for press day: cleans, skullcrushers, decline DB bench, incline DB bench, push press, seated weighted bench dips

example Squat Day:
Full Squats:5x5

Front Squats:135x1x8
185x1x6
205x1x3
185x1x5

Overhead Squats:95x2x8
115x1x5

Dumbell snatches:55x2x6

other exercises you can do on squat day: lunges, lateral lunges, zercher squats, parallel squats, barbell snatches


Example 2: 2 day split

Day one:
Deadlift:5x5

Overhead press:5x5

Weighted pullup/chinup:same as before

Day two:
Squat:5x5

Benchpress:5x5

Bent over row:same as before

**All of these numbers are made up and imaginary, but are just giving you an example of what kind of weight incriments/reps you should be doing. Also, you can mixup using the 5x5 on squats,deadlifts,bench press. Another good way to do those exercises is start light, do a set of 10, then do 2-3 more sets of heavy weights with reps under 5. You can also work your way up in a pyramid type pattern, such as 4 sets of 8,6,4,2, with the weight increasing each set.


Other helpful links:

DeFranco's Training - Westside for Skinny Bastards A modified lifting program for "Hardgainers"

Eclipse Gym :: View topic - Bill Starr 5x5 Primer - How to create your own 5x5 program

Super Squats 20 Rep Squat Routine

RossTraining - Articles

Mixed Martial Arts Training Interview - The Science of Total Training

Power Training Exercises

Development of elastic strength through the use of plyometrics

ExRx Exercise & Muscle Directory



Other notes: Make sure you're still working out you're abs as well. A lot of these exercises work your core immensely already but seated weight decline situps, russian twists, saxon bends, and leg raises are just an example of some other exercises you can do on your non-lifting days. Make sure you're not doing lots of rolling on heavy deadlift days , and make sure you give yourself enough rest. Some people can do the 3 day split Mon-Wed-Fri and still train, for others its over-training. I know most people won't think anything of this article but hopefully I opened SOME peoples eyes to what strength and power training is all about.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How can u mention bodybuilding or whatever you define as lifting around lumps of metal in the gym and not mention nutrition? In fact I just read alot on bodybuilding.com that I never knew and Ive put 8 years into the gym, and recently got back into it.

Im not interested in suppliments but reading about timing of eating has been an eye opener.

As for a routine, which lacks training certain muscles; and over emphasises others. Well there is no magic barrier stopping your body from looking freaky and out of proportion. Dont train calves > chicken legs; dont train incline bench? > pigeon chest. Dont train arms and have huge shoulders and weak arm developement and you will have a few other unkind nicknames.

ATG squads? Bodybuilders stopped doing this in the 70s because it is a great way to ruin you knees (not smart if you have to ground fight in MMA).

Shrugs on a pull day and military press on a press day? Why they are both shoulder movements?

Also when training its advantageous to "mix it up" a bit. Do slight variations of exercises to keep your muscles guessing. If you dont take my word for it, ask Rich Franklin, he has a circuit type workout where he doesnt know what the weights will be or presumably the exercises. Its on youtube if you want to search.

Did I mention nutrition? You wont get anywhere in bodybuilding without a good diet.

Also if u are just starting or getting back into weights, then you probably will want to avoid your other training since you will be hobbling about till u get into your 2nd week.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSixpack
How can u mention bodybuilding or whatever you define as lifting around lumps of metal in the gym and not mention nutrition? In fact I just read alot on bodybuilding.com that I never knew and Ive put 8 years into the gym, and recently got back into it.

Im not interested in suppliments but reading about timing of eating has been an eye opener.

As for a routine, which lacks training certain muscles; and over emphasises others. Well there is no magic barrier stopping your body from looking freaky and out of proportion. Dont train calves > chicken legs; dont train incline bench? > pigeon chest. Dont train arms and have huge shoulders and weak arm developement and you will have a few other unkind nicknames.

ATG squads? Bodybuilders stopped doing this in the 70s because it is a great way to ruin you knees (not smart if you have to ground fight in MMA).

Shrugs on a pull day and military press on a press day? Why they are both shoulder movements?

Also when training its advantageous to "mix it up" a bit. Do slight variations of exercises to keep your muscles guessing. If you dont take my word for it, ask Rich Franklin, he has a circuit type workout where he doesnt know what the weights will be or presumably the exercises. Its on youtube if you want to search.

Did I mention nutrition? You wont get anywhere in bodybuilding without a good diet.

Also if u are just starting or getting back into weights, then you probably will want to avoid your other training since you will be hobbling about till u get into your 2nd week.
It's ridiculous how many false statements and made up things you have in that response. First of all, why would I include nutrition? Diet and nutrition is a completely different subject than strength and power training. Second of all, shrugs are not using your shoulders, but actually your BACK. Another thing you fail to realise, almost ALL of those lifts are COMPOUND LIFTS, meaning they are hitting multiple muscles at the same time. I'm sorry but your response is very ignorant/uninformed, goodluck though. Also, a "weight training circuit" has nothing to do with S&P, its a conditioning/endurance subject. And if you want to work out your calves, do some sled pulls/push your car/run with a wheelbarrow full of weights up hills. Calf raises don't make your calves ****ing strong, they make them look bigger/better.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Shrugs are performs with the trapizius, its a shoulder movement. Ive trained 8 years and Ive only seen shrugs done after doing a shoulder press of some type.

The main point I am making is that, setting a lifting program to me is just childs play. You can perform exercises but you will not get stronger without proper nutrition and sleep. Training is 20%. Im not trying to sell supliments but that bodybuilding.com has some great info on it. Probably has some good workout routines too.

I know some people say "I train everthing at once", when u can do that but your body is like everyone else's u need to allow time for it to heal after a work out. Do muscle groups once a week.

Not everyone who trains MMA will get to the UFC but gains made in the gym are yours to keep; be certain you end up looking better than you did before starting.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSixpack
Shrugs are performs with the trapizius, its a shoulder movement. Ive trained 8 years and Ive only seen shrugs done after doing a shoulder press of some type.

The main point I am making is that, setting a lifting program to me is just childs play. You can perform exercises but you will not get stronger without proper nutrition and sleep. Training is 20%. Im not trying to sell supliments but that bodybuilding.com has some great info on it. Probably has some good workout routines too.

I know some people say "I train everthing at once", when u can do that but your body is like everyone else's u need to allow time for it to heal after a work out. Do muscle groups once a week.

Not everyone who trains MMA will get to the UFC but gains made in the gym are yours to keep; be certain you end up looking better than you did before starting.
http://www.criticalbench.com/exercis...ises-traps.gif

As you can see, they are NOT apart of your shoulders. Common misconception, no worries. And you WILL get stronger even without proper nutrition and sleep, obviously those things are both very important but you can have the best diet in the world and the best sleep cycles in the world but if you don't DO ANY TRAINING, you will never get bigger/stronger, seems kinda weird training is only 20% to you, those 8 years must have been very beneficial
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I do calf raises all the time. I have since I was 9 or 10. By saying that they do not make your calves stronger you sound very ignorant. Do a couple hundred a day while you are watching TV or doing the dishes. If your calves and ankles aint stronger than you must be inhuman.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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wukkadb, for the listed routine the 3 day split I was wondering if those exercises are compatible to use with a resistance band rather than free weights. I've been using nothing but resistance bands besides body weight exercises and I really like the result I get from them. They are good because you can instantly go heavy or light with them, and they do give quite a bit of resistance. Also do you include conditioning training as well or just the tree days as shown?
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith06
I do calf raises all the time. I have since I was 9 or 10. By saying that they do not make your calves stronger you sound very ignorant. Do a couple hundred a day while you are watching TV or doing the dishes. If your calves and ankles aint stronger than you must be inhuman.
sorry, but that's not how you get muscles STRONGER smith06. maybe your muscles will be able to endure more pain/fatigue and be bigger/more toned, but they won't be STRONGER. also, bodyweight calf raises are basically pointless, go push your car up and down the drive way 5 times every night, your calves will be big and strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya
wukkadb, for the listed routine the 3 day split I was wondering if those exercises are compatible to use with a resistance band rather than free weights. I've been using nothing but resistance bands besides body weight exercises and I really like the result I get from them. They are good because you can instantly go heavy or light with them, and they do give quite a bit of resistance. Also do you include conditioning training as well or just the tree days as shown?
Yes, conditioning is included as well. I do conditioning specifically 3 times a week , but you really do conditioning every day if you're training(rolling, sparring, padwork, etc). Resistance bands are something you should be doing on a conditioning day, not weight training day. Strength training is meant to be HEAVY free weights with LOW repetitions. I can tell you haven't checked out any of the links I put on my first post, it'd do you wonders to just check them out.

Here's an article from one of those links I posted concerning resistance bands:
RossTraining - Articles

He uses resistance bands also to work on his rotation and core but as you can see, it's more of a conditioning tool, not strength tool.

I think people are mixing up the term 'strength training' with too many other things.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I disagree with what you say about resistance bands. Yes there are lighter ones but the ones I am currently using are super heavy and they provide more resistance the the weights I used to use and I get a lot bigger pump while using them. I don't use the whole length of the band I put my grip lower so when Im at the top of my lift or whatever im doing the band will not stretch any further. I believe this works well for me each person has their own methods. Other than this the rest of my work is with body weight or rolling on the ball.

However I will take your advice on the type of exercises you had mentioned.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya
I disagree with what you say about resistance bands. Yes there are lighter ones but the ones I am currently using are super heavy and they provide more resistance the the weights I used to use and I get a lot bigger pump while using them. I don't use the whole length of the band I put my grip lower so when Im at the top of my lift or whatever im doing the band will not stretch any further. I believe this works well for me each person has their own methods. Other than this the rest of my work is with body weight or rolling on the ball.

However I will take your advice on the type of exercises you had mentioned.
Resistance bands and bodyweight exercises DO provide good benefits for strength, but you will never be as strong doing those as you will doing PowerLifting type exercises. Who are the strongest people in the world? Olympic power lifters and Strongmen. Their lifts and routines fit very well into martial arts. This link that I posted earlier has an interview with 3 of the top MMA Strength coaches in the game:
Mixed Martial Arts Training Interview - The Science of Total Training

Here's a short clip from there:
Quote:
Typically I only use ground based lifts (deadlifts, cleans etc). I have a great photo of Tito Ortiz in full triple extension – exactly what the Olympic lifts develop. Who says the Olympic lifts don’t transfer to sport?!

We tend to use a lot of offset lifts (i.e. loading in one arm, DB snatches, etc.) to better simulate the lack of balance in a fight.

Prior to any weight training we use bodyweight exercises – a fighter has no business using loads if he (or she) cannot stabilize and control their own bodyweight.

And as far as the lower body goes – a fighter spends so much time in a split stance or on one leg we use a LOT of unilateral work.

As far as typical weaknesses – every ATHLETE I have ever worked with needs more posterior chain work. Fighters are no exception.
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