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post #261 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 10:43 PM
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As you're finding out, for example, a round kick is made much more powerful if you turn your hip over as you throw it.

Using the hips turns a front kick into a push kick, and a defensive side kick into something that potentially stops your opponent, and may buy you that crucial half a second.

This was a big deal when I took TKD, and still is now that I take karate. I know it's ghey.


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post #262 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 10:51 PM
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yea I was taught on the kicks if you hear the slap your not doing as much damage.. when I hit it right with that sweet part of the shin you just feel the bag or the person holding th pads move more you can feel the power transfer.. specially when you get that hip into it.. being a big strong guy myself.. and getting stronger... I have dropped 7% body fat in the last 3 and a half months but only losing about 7-10 pounds of over all weight. my kicks are getting harder my form too needs work.. my left more so then my right. but its getting there.

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post #263 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't mention this in the first post, but the kick workout and attempting to train on the ankle/shin the next morning caused a small injury, so I did kickboxing this morning, but took the night off.



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post #264 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 12:23 AM
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Keep the facial hair.. makes you look over 12.. and damn I though I looked young..

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post #265 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
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Keep the facial hair.. makes you look over 12.. and damn I though I looked young..
Yeah. I'm sure I've mentioned this other places, but I was out with Pat Miletich and he told me I looked like a 12 year old.



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post #266 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 01:18 AM
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Yeah. I'm sure I've mentioned this other places, but I was out with Pat Miletich and he told me I looked like a 12 year old.
I never heard that. How could you hear him under all 3 women?


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post #267 of 319 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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I never heard that. How could you hear him under all 3 women?
Actually, he and Mike Lynch (formerly of WAMMA, currently of Chokeout Poker) were hooking me up.

Great guys.

Pat's faithful to his wife, but he has to beat them off with a stick.



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post #268 of 319 (permalink) Old 03-15-2010, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Revisited

Man, I've seriously neglected this thread.

I'm going to get back to this later this week. I'm still training judo, working conditioning and especially working my standup.

My primary training partner, a Japanese amateur kickboxer named Aki, is keeping me working. His standup is miles ahead of mine, but he's pushing me every day, and I'm helping him with the clinch work (which is good, because I'm a little heavier than he is).



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post #269 of 319 (permalink) Old 04-04-2010, 05:30 PM
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There are a few things I've been really zoning in on.

The first is that, like any guy with a weak kickboxing background, I tend to deliver kicks with the top of my foot. There are plenty of professional kickboxers who do that, but it's bad form, especially on the leg kicks.
I was curious where you were taught that instep kicks were bad form? My background is rather traditionalist in my striking, heavily based in Shotokan Karate, and though I will never admit it to him, adaptive, based on my sparring partner's Shaolin Kung Fu.

I ask because I have always been taught that striking with proper form with the smallest most solid area will provide the best effects. In this regard I have for some time been training to land roundhouse kicks with the ball of my feet, I cannot innumerate the number of times I've jammed my toes learning how to do this, but now I am capable of striking with many area of my foot and my shin to in a roundhouse kick.

There is no question that the shin roundhouse is effective, its as you said, like hitting your opponent with a baseball bat. However there is little if any technique involved and thus I have my doubts. In my mind, there is only one reason why the shin roundhouse is powerful, the bone is very nearly right on the surface. In my mind, a shin kick lacks some of the most important part of the roundhouse kick, the rotation of the body and straight-snap motion of the lower leg. According to my experience, using proper form, an instep kick can and is as effective, as well as more surgical than a shin kick. It also allows the user to maintain a safer distance from their opponent(useful in my case since my opponent has 2-3 inches of reach over me), making evasion a much simpler equation. I'm curious as to your opinion on this subject.



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post #270 of 319 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, squirrelfighter, I did not see this question come up on here. I'm sorry about that, man.

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I was curious where you were taught that instep kicks were bad form? My background is rather traditionalist in my striking, heavily based in Shotokan Karate, and though I will never admit it to him, adaptive, based on my sparring partner's Shaolin Kung Fu.
Keep in mind, I come from a thai/san shou background.

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I ask because I have always been taught that striking with proper form with the smallest most solid area will provide the best effects. In this regard I have for some time been training to land roundhouse kicks with the ball of my feet, I cannot innumerate the number of times I've jammed my toes learning how to do this, but now I am capable of striking with many area of my foot and my shin to in a roundhouse kick.
O.K. so it's not just about jamming the foot, though (in my experience) that's a pretty good deterrent.

The problem is that when an opponent is moving, there's always a chance he's going to check that kick, and if he checks a kick on you shin, the chances of serious injury are much lower than if he checks a kick on the ball of the foot.

The metatarsus isn't strictly fragile, but the way that the elbow can hit the bones in the foot and the way that the foot can get bent back makes that placement really worrisome.


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There is no question that the shin roundhouse is effective, its as you said, like hitting your opponent with a baseball bat. However there is little if any technique involved and thus I have my doubts.
I think that's a pretty huge exaggeration. The kick isn't thrown that radically differently (the hips are still functionally the same, as is the core) but there is a ton of form involved.

Frankly, when it comes to landing on the body, I've also found the shin more painful to be on the other end of, though it may be that my better training partners are thai.


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In my mind, there is only one reason why the shin roundhouse is powerful, the bone is very nearly right on the surface. In my mind, a shin kick lacks some of the most important part of the roundhouse kick, the rotation of the body and straight-snap motion of the lower leg,
These aren't things that disappear in effective kicks with the shins. There are different approaches to the shin kick, but I've never trained a shin kick without turning over the hips and engaging the core.

The snapping motion in the lower leg is actually pretty useless in retrospect. I realize that there are lots of form schools that teach it (and many of the shotokan guys I train with in Fresno use it) but it adds only a small bit of force and can make the angle very awkward if you have an opponent who moves into it. Besides, the power in the kick should, realistically, come from the hips and core, and not from the quad, which is where the snapping motion comes from.


Quote:
According to my experience, using proper form, an instep kick can and is as effective, as well as more surgical than a shin kick. It also allows the user to maintain a safer distance from their opponent(useful in my case since my opponent has 2-3 inches of reach over me), making evasion a much simpler equation. I'm curious as to your opinion on this subject.
If I want to maintain my reach advantage, I tend to stick strictly to hands and thai style pushkicks. But with my background, I basically never want to be at full range. I like closing the distance, it's how I roll.

It does seem that kicks with the instep have more precision, because of the control over that snapping motion, and they definitely have more range. But in terms of effectiveness in kickboxing and MMA, they're pretty limited.

It's my opinion that the kick presents a high risk of injury without a serious risk of damaging you're opponent, and that's a really bad thing in a technique.



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