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Old 10-12-2007, 06:57 PM   #81 (permalink)
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hey

just skimmed through the whole lot

great journal and effort, keep it up
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:46 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Thanks for the update, that's the first I've heard of it.
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Old 10-20-2007, 02:45 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Getting Your Gi On: Gi Grappling For MMA

Alot of fighters believe that gi grappling is overrated, think that it's a waste of time because collar chokes and control of the pantleg isn't something that you have to deal with. Even positions like spider guard are entirely different in an MMA fight when you can't grab the sleeves for arm control.

Still, with all of the guys that might believe gi grappling is obselete, people still do it, myself included. Here's why anyone looking to be a grappler in MMA, or even in submission grappling, should work with the gi on:

Fundamentals

Gi grappling stresses the fundamental techniques like armbars and americanas and triangles and teaches all of the form for setting it up. When you have the gi on, you have to slow down and think about the technique, instead of trying to set it up in a sweaty scramble like with no-gi.

Added weight

Alot of guys really underestimate the gi as a training weight, but it's not just the weight of the gi itself (though I wear a double-weave for most of my training sessions to maximize the weight), it's also how cumbersome it is. It wears on you, it traps your sweat and it gets pulled over your head. It forces you to have an extra consiousness in a fight, because you have to be aware of that gi, which makes the fight that much easier.

Handles

Being aware of things like your leg handles and arm handles is something that you don't have to worry about in no-gi, but when you do it in gi grappling it takes additional focus and additional body awareness. When you have that, it takes affect in MMA and in no-gi, because you are that much more aware of where your opponent is attacking you and you use movements that are more effective, because they're designed to deal with the better handles you have in a gi grappling match.

There are other reasons too, but those are the biggest ones.
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Old 10-20-2007, 03:58 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by IronMan
Alot of fighters believe that gi grappling is overrated, think that it's a waste of time because collar chokes and control of the pantleg isn't something that you have to deal with. Even positions like spider guard are entirely different in an MMA fight when you can't grab the sleeves for arm control.

Still, with all of the guys that might believe gi grappling is obselete, people still do it, myself included. Here's why anyone looking to be a grappler in MMA, or even in submission grappling, should work with the gi on:

Fundamentals

Gi grappling stresses the fundamental techniques like armbars and americanas and triangles and teaches all of the form for setting it up. When you have the gi on, you have to slow down and think about the technique, instead of trying to set it up in a sweaty scramble like with no-gi.

Added weight

Alot of guys really underestimate the gi as a training weight, but it's not just the weight of the gi itself (though I wear a double-weave for most of my training sessions to maximize the weight), it's also how cumbersome it is. It wears on you, it traps your sweat and it gets pulled over your head. It forces you to have an extra consiousness in a fight, because you have to be aware of that gi, which makes the fight that much easier.

Handles

Being aware of things like your leg handles and arm handles is something that you don't have to worry about in no-gi, but when you do it in gi grappling it takes additional focus and additional body awareness. When you have that, it takes affect in MMA and in no-gi, because you are that much more aware of where your opponent is attacking you and you use movements that are more effective, because they're designed to deal with the better handles you have in a gi grappling match.

There are other reasons too, but those are the biggest ones.
Nice write up, Ironman, I totally agree. I think learning bjj through the Gi is so much smarter and a lot more beneficial as well. It's way easier to transition from Gi to No gi than vice verca. A good example of how much Gi jiu jitsu helps is Diego Sanchez. He always trained No gi and since moving to SD and training under Saulo and Xander Roberio, has picked up Gi bjj and it certainly showed in his last fight vs Fitch. The majority of people would of tapped to that triangle, a few of those armbars, AND that guillotine. Impressive stuff
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:21 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wukkadb
Nice write up, Ironman, I totally agree. I think learning bjj through the Gi is so much smarter and a lot more beneficial as well. It's way easier to transition from Gi to No gi than vice verca. A good example of how much Gi jiu jitsu helps is Diego Sanchez. He always trained No gi and since moving to SD and training under Saulo and Xander Roberio, has picked up Gi bjj and it certainly showed in his last fight vs Fitch. The majority of people would of tapped to that triangle, a few of those armbars, AND that guillotine. Impressive stuff
Also remember that Jon Fitch (and alot of the other AKA guys) practice gi. One of their gi coaches was down at the last tournament I competed in at Santa Cruz.

Xande Ribiero's also a really good friend of my instructor and I got to work with him when he came up to teach a seminar. He's one of those guys who's no-gi is so incredible because of his gi work.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:38 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Also gi grappling is more realistic. On the street you wear clothes too.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:16 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Also gi grappling is more realistic. On the street you wear clothes too.
No-gi isn't necessarily just in MMA shorts. Some guys do it in gi pants and a t-shirt, though general attire is shorts and a shirt. Unless people are doing team training, where it's all guys who are pretty close knit while the environment is closed off, they keep the shirts on. It's more of a respect thing for guests.

I agree, though, that gi grappling better simulates heavy clothing, like a jeans and jacket type deal. I definitely have no trouble throwing a gi-choke on a guy in a hoodie (I'm usually fine with a t-shirt too, but it depends).
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:37 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot IronMan, you've made my decision that much easier to buy a decent Gi and start training in it
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:55 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Glad I could help, obscura.

So, I was thinking about the sidemount vs. full mount in terms of MMA application, because I've never really favored the full mount.

There's a typical belief among the BJJ guys that I train with that the mount, the backmount and the back positions are superior in competition, combat and MMA because they give you alot of leverage and your opponent has basically none. As true as that is, there's a big price for taking the mount.

When you are in the mount, your just there. You can't move or be versatile. Granted, there are plenty of ways to attack your opponent, but all of those attacks start from that same position and, if your opponent is smart, he's going to make it very difficult to get out of that position if you want to do something else.

I have no problem with being in full mount. Pounding a guy's face into hamburger meat is definitely an effective way to win a fight, but it's not the most fun or the most efficient way and mound isn't always the best road to it.

When you are in side control, you're opponent has the ability to sneak out if you make a mistake, but because of the way that your center of gravity is just hanging out, it's pretty difficult for them to do a handful of things, like grab the legs (the classic wrestling and jiu-jitsu sweep) or buck (assuming that you are in a stable side mount, belly-to-belly or lounge position.

The attacks from side mount are the same, and you can set up all of the moves that you can use in mount, like the under the head americana (slip one arm under your opponents head as you lock down the arm for the americana, and pass to mount to improve your leverage, but you don't even have to mount to finish), the Fedor style kimura from side control (he tends to isolate the arm, and if you can pull that off then the position is that much better) and my favorite choke (the ezequiel choke, which is another "slip your hand under the head and pass to mount to finish" move).

The sidemount also offers you the opportunity to do something that you can't do in full mount without losing leverage, which is smear your opponents face with your chest. As a hairy chested dude, there are some psychological advantages along to the pressure on my opponent, but it also gives me the opportunity to set up cool techniques like a north-south choke, which most people don't think about because they are always so focused on going to mount.

A good sidemount is as much about speed and pressure as a good scramble, and it's also about being able to make your opponent make mistakes. In mount, there's only a few (though common) mistakes that your opponent can make. They can give up their arms or their back (or their neck, in gi grappling). In sidemount, you have the power to transition quicker to different, creative positions that allow you to attack your opponent in different ways. For example:

If my opponent is protecting their arms and I'm not allowed to elbow them in the face (say this is a grappling match, or an MMA match where I don't want to risk losing a controlling arm by using the elbow), I can smear my opponents face and move to north-south or I can go to a reverse mount (so my body is facing the legs), insert a knee into what I call a reverse-half-guard position and go for a knee bar, toe-hold or roll back into a heel-hook or, if I want to go wrestling style, I can scoop under my opponents leg, go under the head, and roll them up so I can force backmount, mount or a hammer lock position (that's the setup position for the armbar from mount, for those who aren't familiar with Ken Shamrock's submission grappling terms).

Personally, sidemount gives me alot of options with my submissions and my positions, as well as allowing me to attack my opponent in ways that most guys don't train for. I feel like that gives me an edge that a position like mount, which is static, as painful as if might be to be stuck in, doesn't.

Hope that was helpful for guys trying to find a comfortable spot on the ground. Remember, sidecontrol and be static and slow, but when it's played right it's the fastest and most aggressive transition position for a grappling offensive.
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:23 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Awesome No-Gi Chokes

I was working in no-gi class today and was talking with a more experienced visiting former-student who's done some training with some good guys and he showed me some cool variations of the guillotine choke (my second favorite choke, and my best one by far). This are more complicated then the basic technique, but they are really cool and they work.

North/South Guillotine Choke

This is really a standard north/south that I've been using for a while, but with some modifications to really help the leverage and make the choke more effective.

Start off in the lounge position and swim the arm over into a side headlock (the setup for a mounted guillotine). Your hips should be facing towards your opponents leg.

Shoot your hips back and out in a standard shrimp move so that you are pushing your opponent's head with your ribs to give you more leverage. As you do this, pass the hand over so that you are in a guillotine grip.

Once you have locked in the guillotine grip and secured a position that allows your to crank down on your opponents neck without solidly (their head should be pushed off to the side to a pretty uncomfortable position to work best), slide your weight off of their chest (which is where it should have been to pin your opponent down in order for you to secure the position) and onto their neck.

Get all of your weight on to the neck and try and flatten your hips out, lifting up with your torso the same way that you would in a standing guillotine. That will finish the choke.

Side Control Verticle Choke

This is a variation of the North South and can be used as a setup for the North South given a certain reaction from your opponent.

While in side control, swim over to get position for the guillotine set up.

From this position, your opponent tries to escape by getting up on to their side and shooting their hips out. Slide up to put pressure on the head and lock in the guillotine grip.

The major variation in this technique is that you are using your torso and your guillotine grip to block the arteries in the neck, as well as using the leverage to crank it.

From this position, slide your weight off (this is usually just called un-loading, and it's the same this used to apply the submission for the North South as above or the guillotine from a sprawled position) and flatten out your hips. If the guillotine grip isn't deep enough it won't choke your opponent out, but it will put on a crank that will force them either to roll flat into a perfect sprawled guillotine position (which, from my experience, is the typical reaction) or roll to their back into the north/south choke position as listed above.

Hope that was helpful for some folks.
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