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Old 09-03-2006, 10:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machdiesel
ne other comments..Over training, add something, take away stuff??
There's no such thing as over training. Ther is training badly, which is how people get hurt. There are two things that you have to ask yourself in order to really think about using this as a fighter.

Firstly, when are you going to peak?

Secondly, are you going to take diet supplements with such a rigorous routine?

There was a question about pushups and how they effect fighters. Really, it is ideal to train at a much higher weight then your's and pushups, though practical, will only give you your body weight of excersise. One of my friends has begun doing a bodyweight routine, but adding a 30lb weighted vest, which he wears all of the time. That's more practical.
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Old 09-04-2006, 03:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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the trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enoughthe trainer will become famous soon enough
Wow this hread fricken exploded!

Sorry iron man, but their is such a thing as over training. for example, if i go to the gym today and do heavy weights (I mean ur max for 6-8 reps) on bench press, bent over row and dead lifts (note these 3 exercises work all my muscles - yes even abs!) and then i go in tomorrow and expect to equal my performance - that would be over training.
You need 4 to 7 days (recovery time depends on sleep and diet) to let ur muscles recover, keep in mind that you are not just letting your muscles recover, you are actually waiting for them to exceed your last lifts!
If you train properly you should get stronger after every session (albeit only a bit)

other things to remember:
you do not need to train till u cant move.
you should be sore the next day (or 2)
you need to eat before and after you train
stretching before you lft is bad, after is good
if you are a begginer to weight training do higher reps and slightly lower weights to train ur cns, do this for the 1st 3 months or soand you will get massive gains, when you start to plateu up the weights andlower te reps and your results will keep improving provided your diet is good

last thing: I am actually a qualified personal trainer, like i did a course, so dont just say i'm wrong because you dont like wat im saying! However im more than happy to discuss different views o training with people who know wat their talking about
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:23 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the trainer
Wow this hread fricken exploded!

Sorry iron man, but their is such a thing as over training. for example, if i go to the gym today and do heavy weights (I mean ur max for 6-8 reps) on bench press, bent over row and dead lifts (note these 3 exercises work all my muscles - yes even abs!) and then i go in tomorrow and expect to equal my performance - that would be over training.
You need 4 to 7 days (recovery time depends on sleep and diet) to let ur muscles recover, keep in mind that you are not just letting your muscles recover, you are actually waiting for them to exceed your last lifts!
If you train properly you should get stronger after every session (albeit only a bit)

other things to remember:
you do not need to train till u cant move.
you should be sore the next day (or 2)
you need to eat before and after you train
stretching before you lft is bad, after is good
if you are a begginer to weight training do higher reps and slightly lower weights to train ur cns, do this for the 1st 3 months or soand you will get massive gains, when you start to plateu up the weights andlower te reps and your results will keep improving provided your diet is good

last thing: I am actually a qualified personal trainer, like i did a course, so dont just say i'm wrong because you dont like wat im saying! However im more than happy to discuss different views o training with people who know wat their talking about
Man you guys are killing me lol, Ok whether or not actual OVERTRAINING exist is still up for debate in sports medicine. But the muscles do not need 4/7 days. research shows that after 48 hours there is no negative effect of retraining the same muscle, in fact the anabolic state from resistence traiing expires at about 48 hours so working that body part closer to 48 hours afer the last time will keep you growing more. Research has shown that this type of periodization is more effective than lifting the muscle group after more than 72+ hours

And I am more than just a trainer. I write the things you will learn in the courses 5-10 years from now
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the trainer
Wow this hread fricken exploded!

Sorry iron man, but their is such a thing as over training. for example, if i go to the gym today and do heavy weights (I mean ur max for 6-8 reps) on bench press, bent over row and dead lifts (note these 3 exercises work all my muscles - yes even abs!) and then i go in tomorrow and expect to equal my performance - that would be over training.
You need 4 to 7 days (recovery time depends on sleep and diet) to let ur muscles recover, keep in mind that you are not just letting your muscles recover, you are actually waiting for them to exceed your last lifts!
If you train properly you should get stronger after every session (albeit only a bit)
This is what I mean by training stupidly. If you're taking dietary supplements then your muscle recover 2 to 3 times as fast and allow you to train and produce muscle at a much faster rate.

Listen, man, I don't doubt your credentials, but you can spend 10+ hours at the gym and not overtrain. It's all about knowing how to push yourself correctly.
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If you spend too much time in the gym you will have high cortisol and low testosterone levels. Which will decrease muscle gain, increase fat accumulation, lower metabolism.....

And dietary supplements dont make u recover 2-3 times faster. That is a major exaguration. Proper diet and training can not be replaced by any number of supplements or even steroids for that matter.
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame46
If you spend too much time in the gym you will have high cortisol and low testosterone levels. Which will decrease muscle gain, increase fat accumulation, lower metabolism.....

And dietary supplements dont make u recover 2-3 times faster. That is a major exaguration. Proper diet and training can not be replaced by any number of supplements or even steroids for that matter.
OK, you caught me. Realistically, you have to pay attention to diet as weel as adding supplements. Only an idiot would take a sports supplement without first altering the diet plan to be more healthy.

I don't think you're writing anything that isn't in a high school physiology course, but this personal trainer is pulling numbers out of the air. I don't even spend 4-7 days to recover from fights, much less a training session.

Supplement implies that you are adding it to diet and excersise. Also, I doubt that spending 10 hours at the gym will lower muscle gain and testosterone production. They may not increase, but it cerainly won't cause the body to gain fat and lower the metabolism, that seems a little bit fabricated.
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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LOL well let me help you see the light then
Heres one of my short articles

When a person is working out to gain muscle, the goal is anabolism. You’re trying to create the conditions for an anabolic response. This means you want to limit any response that is going to decrease muscle growth, and increase every response you can to stimulate it. When comparing a single set of squat, to multiple sets (6) in this study. Post workout test showed now significant change in androgen receptor content or cortisol levels in the single set group. However the multiple set group showed a significant decrease in androgen receptors and an increase in cortisol. That is both decreases the anabolic effect that hormones can have on the muscle tissue, and increasing catabolism, or the break down of muscle tissue. We have all seen this in real life, it’s the guy that comes in and does 3 sets of dumbbell curls, and then 3 sets of barbell curls, and then 3 sets of preachers or something and has nothing to show for it. He is probably the gyms most frequent member, pushing himself in the no pain/no gain fashion. But no gain is exactly what he is getting. Studies have shown that when it comes to hypertrophy doing a certain exercise beyond 1 max intensity set, maybe 2, is just burning more calories. No additional hypertrophic response is going to be gained by doing 5 intense sets vs. 2 intense sets. One thing I will include however is that more sets have been shown to increase HGH levels. So this suggest an opening for drugs/exercise, meaning that more sets could be done with AAS and a cortisol blocker, to increase HGH levels and still keep a prime environment for muscle hypertrophy. However when not taking these drugs the increase in HGH will likely not overcome the negative factors.

Now how about training frequency. We all know that exercising once properly can result in increased testosterone levels and increased androgen receptors. How do we know when we should hit the gym again to keep these effects without overtraining or causing negative effects like those listed above. Studies have shown that a repeat exercise bout at 48hours after the original results in further increase in both testosterone and androgen receptors, and furthermore 48 hours later done a 3rd time. This is the science behind the hypertrophy specific training method. These guys didn’t just think this up in the gym one day. This type of training was the first to be based on the science of muscle hypertrophy. I know long time vets, that have sworn off all over methods after starting HST.
So now that you have packed on some muscle how do you shed that fat without limiting your further gains, or losing the ones you have. HIIT, high intensity interval training has been a very popular method, and for good reason. Short length, high intensity cardio bouts have a more positive effect on hormone levels, while long bouts of cardio sky rocket cortisol levels and can increase myostatin, where as short-term endurance training reduces myostatin.
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Androgen receptor content following heavy resistance exercise in men.

* Ratamess NA,
* Kraemer WJ,
* Volek JS,
* Maresh CM,
* Vanheest JL,
* Sharman MJ,
* Rubin MR,
* French DN,
* Vescovi JD,
* Silvestre R,
* Hatfield DL,
* Fleck SJ,
* Deschenes MR.

Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, Unit 1110, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-1110, USA.
The purpose of the present investigation was to examine androgen receptor (AR) content in the vastus lateralis following two resistance exercise protocols of different volume. Nine resistance-trained men (age=24.3+/-4.4 years) performed the squat exercise for 1 (SS) and 6 sets (MS) of 10 repetitions in a random, counter-balanced order. Muscle biopsies were performed at baseline, and 1h following each protocol. Blood was collected prior to, immediately following (IP), and every 15 min after each protocol for 1h. No acute elevations in serum total testosterone were observed following SS, whereas significant 16-23% elevations were observed at IP, 15, and 30 min post-exercise following MS. No acute elevations in plasma cortisol were observed following SS, whereas significant 31-49% elevations were observed for MS at IP, 15, and 30 min post-exercise. Androgen receptor content did not change 1h following SS but significantly decreased by 46% following MS. These results demonstrated that a higher volume of resistance exercise resulted in down-regulation of AR content 1h post-exercise. This may have been due to greater protein catabolism associated with the higher level of stress following higher-volume resistance exercise.
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Effects of sequential bouts of resistance exercise on androgen receptor expression.

* Willoughby DS,
* Taylor L.

Exercise and Biochemical Nutrition Laboratory, Department of HHPR, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798, USA. Darryn_Willouby@baylor.edu
PURPOSE: Increased serum testosterone (TST) occurs in response to resistance exercise and is associated with increased muscle mass. However, the effects of elevated TST and sequential resistance exercise bouts on androgen receptor (AR) expression in humans are not well known. This study examined three sequential bouts of heavy-resistance exercise on serum total TST, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and free androgen index (FAI), skeletal muscle AR mRNA and protein expression, and myofibrillar protein content. METHODS: Eighteen untrained males were randomly assigned to either a resistance-training [RST (N = 9)] or control group [CON (N = 9)]. RST performed three lower-body resistance exercise bouts, each separated by 48 h. At each exercise bout, RST performed three sets of 8-10 repetitions at 75-80% one-repetition maximum using the squat, leg press, and leg extension exercises, respectively, whereas CON performed no resistance exercise. Muscle biopsies were obtained immediately before the first exercise bout and 48 h after each of the three bouts, whereas blood samples were obtained immediately before, immediately after, and 30 min after each bout. Data were analyzed with two-way ANOVA and bivariate correlations. RESULTS: Serum TST and FAI were significantly increased after each exercise bout (P < 0.05); however, there were no significant changes for SHBG. AR mRNA and protein were significantly increased (P < 0.05) after the second and third exercise bouts, respectively, and were significantly correlated to TST and FAI (P < 0.05). Myofibrillar protein increased after the third bout (P < 0.05). CONCLUSIONS: Three sequential bouts of heavy resistance exercise increases serum TST and are effective at up-regulating AR mRNA and protein expression that appears to correspond to subsequent increases in myofibrillar protein
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hormonal responses after various resistance exercise protocols.

* Smilios I,
* Pilianidis T,
* Karamouzis M,
* Tokmakidis SP.

Department of Physical Education & Sport Science, Democritus University of Thrace, Komotini, Greece.
PURPOSE: This study examined the effects of the number of sets on testosterone, cortisol, and growth hormone (hGH) responses after maximum strength (MS), muscular hypertrophy (MH), and strength endurance (SE) protocols. METHODS: Eleven young men performed multi-joint dynamic exercises using MS (5 reps at 88% of one-repetition maximum (1-RM), 3-min rest) and MH (10 reps at 75% of 1-RM, 2-min rest) protocols with 2, 4, and 6 sets at each exercise; and an SE (15 reps at 60% of 1-RM, 1-min rest) with 2 and 4 sets. Hormonal concentrations were measured before exercise, immediately after, and at 15 and 30 min of recovery. RESULTS: The number of sets did not affect the hormonal responses after the MS protocol. Cortisol and hGH were higher (P < 0.05) after the four-set compared with the two-set sessions in the MH and SE protocols. No differences were observed between the six-set and the four-set sessions in the MH protocol. Cortisol and hGH were higher (P < 0.05) than the MS after the SE and MH protocols, and only when four and six sets were performed in the latter. hGH was higher than the MH after the SE protocol, whether two or four sets were executed, whereas cortisol (P < 0.05) was higher after the SE protocol only when two sets were performed. Testosterone did not change with any workout. CONCLUSION: The number of sets functions up to a point as a stimulus for increased hormonal concentrations in order to optimize adaptations with MH and SE protocols, and has no effect on a MS protocol. Furthermore, the number of sets may differentiate long-term adaptations with MS, MH, and SE protocols causing distinct hormonal responses.
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