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Old 03-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ASKREN4WIN View Post
Not the state I grew up in when I wrestled.

Yes, but sameday weight cutting would not be an issue if the fighters were not cutting the enormous amounts of weight they currently are cutting. If Alves walks aroung at 197 lbs then Alves would only have to cut 12 pounds to make 185 lbs.
High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.

But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.


I agree with you that it'd be better if fighters didn't cut large amounts of weight. But that's obviously not the case. And until it is, I think the current system is better than same day weigh ins. Many fighters will still cut massive weight for a same day weigh in, then they'll fight with a severe increased likelihood of brain damage.

A better system than either of them would be regulation to determine what their hydrated weight would be at a certain low body fat percentage and limiting them to only fighting in that weight class or above.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SmackyBear View Post
High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.

But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.


I agree with you that it'd be better if fighters didn't cut large amounts of weight. But that's obviously not the case. And until it is, I think the current system is better than same day weigh ins. Many fighters will still cut massive weight for a same day weigh in, then they'll fight with a severe increased likelihood of brain damage.

A better system than either of them would be regulation to determine what their hydrated weight would be at a certain low body fat percentage and limiting them to only fighting in that weight class or above.
Well. The system you describe would be more foolproof. It would insure fighters are at their freshest considering they are not cutting the massive amount of weight even if weigh ins are on the same day.

It seems to be getting worse these days when you have career MWs in Marquardt and Akiyama cutting to WW.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ASKREN4WIN View Post
Well. The system you describe would be more foolproof. It would insure fighters are at their freshest considering they are not cutting the massive amount of weight even if weigh ins are on the same day.

It seems to be getting worse these days when you have career MWs in Marquardt and Akiyama cutting to WW.
I completely agree that it's getting out of hand. I couldn't believe Marquardt went down to 170 without any noticeable loss of muscle mass.

I don't blame the fighters. I understand they're ultra-competitive people who look to gain an edge, and their careers depend on wins and losses. But the commissions need to look out for them and take the choice out of the athletes' hands.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I completely agree that it's getting out of hand. I couldn't believe Marquardt went down to 170 without any noticeable loss of muscle mass.

I don't blame the fighters. I understand they're ultra-competitive people who look to gain an edge, and their careers depend on wins and losses. But the commissions need to look out for them and take the choice out of the athletes' hands.
Not to mention that their enormous weight cutting compromises their cardio to the point that they gas 1.5 rounds into the fight. Sometimes sooner.

There is no worse feeling than seeing a fighter you like start a fight strong and then gas and lose.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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A friend and I were talking about weight cutting a couple of days ago. We both agreed that weigh-ins should be an hour before the fight to discourage cutting weight.

This would change the landscape of the game, but imo it makes the game a lot safer.

Firstly, you wouldn't have such disparaging differences in weight between fighters when they are competing against one another (thus making the fight more fair and safer in terms of the men having similar power)

Secondly, it would likely stop weight cutting, which is an unormal process that is extremely hard on the body. The body resists change for a reason and altering your physique over long periods of time in strenuous enough never mind over a few hours. I think weight cutting is extremely dangerous and As Smacky (I believe) already mentioned there have been deaths of wrestlers in the past due to the process.

The chance that someone gets severely hurt or dies is probably not high, however I do not think cutting weight is worth a life or even a chance that someone looses their life.

Simply put, have the fighters weigh-in an hour before the fight so fighters are fighting at a natural weight.

If they can no longer be competitive at their current weight class, then they will have to diet down or beef up to a weight they can compete at effectively.

If a fighter can't make weight an hour before the fight, then same rules apply. A portion of the purse will be forfeited and the fighter that makes weight can decline the fight.

That's my take on fixing what I see as a dangerous problem in mma.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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He's too muscular which is why he's got such a huge frame.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SmackyBear View Post
High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.

But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.


I agree with you that it'd be better if fighters didn't cut large amounts of weight. But that's obviously not the case. And until it is, I think the current system is better than same day weigh ins. Many fighters will still cut massive weight for a same day weigh in, then they'll fight with a severe increased likelihood of brain damage.

A better system than either of them would be regulation to determine what their hydrated weight would be at a certain low body fat percentage and limiting them to only fighting in that weight class or above.
I think that would be a good system, but having them weigh in right before they go into the cage or an hour before would severely discourage weight cuts. I think the max you would see would be ten pounds.

In fact, if you had them weigh-in just before they entered the cage and they had to do the whole walkout and everything and the fight would be cancelled if they didn't make weight, then we likely wouldn't see a fighter miss weight again and they likely would be cutting no weight at all.

The system your proposing is definitively more of a scientific approach, but it has problem associated with it. Ex) There are large differences in skeletal density which results in some people having heavier bones.

Also if the body fat percentage is a low standard that every fighter is compared to, then some fighters will be at an advantage if they have a lower body fat percentage than the standard and fighters with a higher body fat percentages will be at a disadvantage.

In a way it's like genetic profiling for a champion. Fighters with a very low body fat percentage are going to have a unfair advantage in my opinion.

Additionally, this approach will really result in a cookie cutter approach to each weight class. Typically there is a certain range for height and weight for a fighter in each division, but this approach would get rid of all the outliers in each division.

If I'm interpreting this wrong, let me know Smacky.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Its nothing but water weight. If they weigh in's were closer to the fight, fighter would be so tired after the first round there wouldnt be anything to watch.

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Old 03-02-2012, 01:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This would change the landscape of the game, but imo it makes the game a lot safer.

I dont think it would, back in the older days of boxing when they had same day weigh ins fighters would fight very dehydrated - you mess up the weight and suddenly you are boiling down the fighting weight and not having no where near enough time to get back up. People's careers are at risk in the UFC if they pull out...while back then people were fighting out of desperation a lot more, since the money was only good enough to live on.

The change in combat sport to a day before weigh in was to make the whole thing safer, fighting when drained is much worse, and very risky, while a botched weight cut these days normally just = a quickly gassed fighter - thing is, people abused the system to come in as big as they can. A max weight on fight day 10% above the contracted weight would do something to help this situation.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I don't care if Thiago weighs close to 200 lbs.

He'll still look noticeably smaller than Kampmann in the cage.

It doesn't matter what the system is, fighters will always push the limits trying to get an advantage.

If weigh ins are the same day as fights, you'll still have tons of people trying to beat the system & it will be much more dangerous, but nothing will change.

There will still be tons of fighters trying to find a scientifically viable means of cutting tons of weight, and they'll still be trying to gain an advantage over other fighters.

At least the way things are now, its relatively safe. People aren't dying or having severe cases of brain damage inflicted on them due to the dehydration process.

Comparing a college wrestling match which might last 7 minutes to a MMA fight with subs and blunt trauma blows to the body lasting 15-25 minutes and saying they're the same thing is ridiculous.

What really makes me happy about this is none of the people who support something so ridiculous are in a position to make it happen...
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