Justin.tv Not Guilty Of 'Stealing Cable' When Users Stream UFC Matches - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

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Old 03-22-2012, 03:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Woodenhead View Post
RE: piracy = stealing (hint: it's not stealing - the apple analogy is stupid, since in that example, the apple goes missing. Stealing = loss of physical property.)

RE: rationalizing/justifying - Every side of this debate = rationalizing/justifying. I don't see how that is any sort of an argument at all. o_O

Also, LOL @ the "gateway" theory there. What's next, a McCarthyist rant?
And here is the danger (IMO) of these types of exchanges - instead of arguing/discussing the issue (and my point was that Internet piracy is wrong) we end up discussing the meaning/use of "stealing". However, I respect your opinion and would even agree with it, if it were correct . But I've had my say, vented my spleen and moved on...

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Old 03-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Since you've "moved on" I guess I'm posting this for everyone else, as you won't reply. But anyway, the law* agrees with me, not you. (RE: stealing vs. infringement)

And internet piracy isn't a black and white issue, but unfortunately most try to make it out to be exactly that. It is not a binary issue.

The way I use "piracy" in regards to the UFC is not wrong at all. And that's a fact.

[Edit] semi-related funny: link Nice one, Sony. haha


*In my home country, Canada, at least. It's pretty much the same everywhere else though, if not more lenient.

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Old 03-22-2012, 03:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Set aside 1200 bucks and you can watch all UFC events in a year. A bit skewed from $180 for all NBA games. UFC still has a long ways to go before they hit the mainstream.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Funny - I've spent time in Winnipeg and Toronto (family in both) and in towns they refuse to let me into their cinemas without paying – even though I wasn’t going to physically take anything, they still considered watching the movies they were showing without paying “stealing”

But wait, I hear you say (or is that just the usual voices I hear?) in hockey if you steal the puck there is physical removal – so you’re correct (definitely you I’m hearing ay)

But no! In baseball players are always stealing bases – and there’s no physical property actually removed!!! So I’m right – yay me!

But what about basketball I hear you shout – they steal the (actual physical) ball – Canada wins! Canada Wins!

But just yesterday, as I passed my wife at home, and I stole a kiss (not physical property) so I’m right – I’m bloody right! OMG I am right – in your face Woodenhead!!!!

Woody – you see what I mean, it’s all semantics – instead of having a genuine discussion about the relative rights and wrongs of streaming live feed without the originators approval; we end up discussing my use of the word stealing…

Like I previously said mate, it makes no difference to me (unless the UFC increases their prices as a result… oh bugger) who steals what. But hypocrisy irks me, and felt compelled to express my opinion.

Now I would be interested if you can quote some reliable Canadian law that supports your position – actually, what is your position other than I am wrong?. I assume it’s that all Canadians are allowed and encouraged to pirate whatever they want from the internet – but I’m not sure.

Have a good one mate – I’m glad at least that you enjoyed my Gateway Crime analogy – which actually happened to someone I know from the internet (so it must be true!).
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by box View Post
Set aside 1200 bucks and you can watch all UFC events in a year. A bit skewed from $180 for all NBA games. UFC still has a long ways to go before they hit the mainstream.
The NBA doesn't need to charge 1200 bucks, they have 30 teams that each play an 82 game season(most of the time atleast) so one franchise alone holds more home games(41) than the UFC holds events altogether.

Not to mention they're also making a killing off their players, just think of how much money they make off LeBron James' jersey alone.

The UFC has the opportunity to eliminate the majority of their PPV's but they need a drastic increase of ratings on FOX first.

Then again, does anyone really expect a sport like MMA to be on the same level as the NFL or NBA? Not everyone finds the idea of two people in a cage fight that appealing. I think the UFC should be compared to more like the MLS.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I can actually see both sides. It boils down to 2 kinds of people that are watching streams:
1. People that watch the stream but would never buy a PPV. This has no revenue lost whatsoever for the UFC.
2. People that would buy the PPV's but don't because they get it for free online. There is revenue lost here.

However it's very hard to measure how many people are on either side. One can also argue that there are a lot of people streaming instead of pooling money together to watch it at your buddy's place, which also incurs loss for the UFC.

That said, the bottom line is that the UFC provides a service that they would like to get paid for (setting up a PPV) and their claim that if you don't pay, you can't watch it. That's what is important. I'm all for as many freedoms as possible, but when you own something, you have the final say in what you want to do with it. It's not about whether you can or should or shouldn't do something. People keep bringing up analogies and they all make sense in the posters' context. But the bottom line is, the UFC owns the content and service and so it's their decision as to how they want people to view it.

Let me use an analogy of my own:
If I decide to open an air castle for $1000 dollars per hour, would it be okay for you to sneak in and get a free hour in my castle under the claim that if you would have to pay, you would never have done it? The result is the same, you got a free experience instead of dishing out $1000 dollars and I'll feel screwed over because you took advantage of a service I provided under certain conditions without compensation.

If you made it this far reading my crap, I'm just expressing my opinion. Internet, keep on internetting
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheLyotoLegion View Post
The NBA doesn't need to charge 1200 bucks, they have 30 teams that each play an 82 game season(most of the time atleast) so one franchise alone holds more home games(41) than the UFC holds events altogether.

Not to mention they're also making a killing off their players, just think of how much money they make off LeBron James' jersey alone.

The UFC has the opportunity to eliminate the majority of their PPV's but they need a drastic increase of ratings on FOX first.

Then again, does anyone really expect a sport like MMA to be on the same level as the NFL or NBA? Not everyone finds the idea of two people in a cage fight that appealing. I think the UFC should be compared to more like the MLS.
MMA/UFC should be compared to MLS because comparing cage fighting to the worlds most popular and participated sport makes more sense... Not sure you thought that one through

I've said too much

Seriously though, the rest of your post was spot on!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The UFC needs to air more free fights. Period, paragraph.

In the meantime, I'm happy with Reloaded on Fuel.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
you see what I mean, it’s all semantics – instead of having a genuine discussion about the relative rights and wrongs of streaming live feed without the originators approval; we end up discussing my use of the word stealing…
Actually, you're the one trying to trivialize/divert by going on about semantics. I merely pointed out a blatant misuse of a word - which is an important distinction.

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Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
But hypocrisy irks me, and felt compelled to express my opinion.
There is no hypocrisy on my part whatsoever. But posting one's opinion is fine. I'm only interested in debating things being passed off as fact.

My only point is that this whole streaming thing isn't inherently causing harm to anyone. Laws are created to prevent people from being hurt, physically and/or financially. Neither is happening here. At least, not in the way I utilize it, and not in every case.

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Originally Posted by oordeel View Post
I can actually see both sides. It boils down to 2 kinds of people that are watching streams:
1. People that watch the stream but would never buy a PPV. This has no revenue lost whatsoever for the UFC.
2. People that would buy the PPV's but don't because they get it for free online. There is revenue lost here. UFC.

But the bottom line is, the UFC owns the content and service and so it's their decision as to how they want people to view it.
Exactly. But I don't entirely agree with that last sentence. (I'd say I agree with it like 90%) There's always allowances to do with personal sharing & format shifting etc. Also, like I already said, if I'm not doing any harm, then I should not be punished. I'm a very firm believer in the basic concept of the Harm Principle.

Last edited by Woodenhead : 03-22-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
MMA/UFC should be compared to MLS because comparing cage fighting to the worlds most popular and participated sport makes more sense... Not sure you thought that one through

I've said too much

Seriously though, the rest of your post was spot on!
I'm not saying it should be compared to Soccer world wide, I'm talking about the level of popularity the MLS has here in America, to me, that's what the UFC is like except it may be a little bigger. World wide soccer is huge and nothing can compare to it on a global base but in America it's nothing compared to the NFL, NBA, or even the MLB and sadly that's as far as MMA can go at least here in America. it's just not for everyone, be it the violence or the perception that the ground game is "gay".
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