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Old 03-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I agree with Hughes. Chael isn't going to do anything different. He knows he was close to victory and will use the same gameplan. Meanwhile Silva is likely going to train nothing but TDD and effective counterstriking, and will be very ready. Chael will fail. He always buckles in his big fights.
These types of comments always humor me.

I like the way people think that someone who has never wrestled can simply train TDD for a few months and poof, they are ready to stop the TD of an Olympic caliber wrestler.

The only way Silva will stop Sonnens TD is if he is able to time a knee and KO Sonnen, which is hard to do. Barring that if Sonnen is able to get his hands on Silva then Silva is going down.

Are we sure he didnt train nothing but TDD for the first fight?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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These types of comments always humor me.

I like the way people think that someone who has never wrestled can simply train TDD for a few months and poof, they are ready to stop the TD of an Olympic caliber wrestler.

The only way Silva will stop Sonnens TD is if he is able to time a knee and KO Sonnen, which is hard to do. Barring that if Sonnen is able to get his hands on Silva then Silva is going down.

Are we sure he didnt train nothing but TDD for the first fight?
Did you see the Bisping fight?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Did you see the Bisping fight?
Did you see the first Anderson/Sonnen fight?

Ive always said that Bisping has very underrated wrestling and good TD defense. Way better than Anderson and yet Sonnen was able to take him down but not keep him there, until the third round.

Hammil and Evans were able to take Bisping down, but not really keep him there.

Bisping has a history of being able to get to his feet after being taken down by a wrestler, Silva not so much.

Im not saying Silva is going to lose, but the notion that Sonnen will not be able to take Silva down this time because Silva will be "ready" is laughable to me.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Chael will take him down. The question in my mind is what will he do then. I hope he has learned to generate some power. A few titoesque elbows and he wins.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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People ask 'did you see the Bisping fight?' as though it means something. This isn't some universe where Sonnen never fought Silva, and didn't take him down multiple times for five rounds straight. The fact is, one doesn't need to see the Bisping fight. We've seen Sonnen vs. Silva, and we KNOW that the former can take the latter down almost at will. The proof is in the pudding. The tape exists.

Had these two men never fought, and we were looking to where Sonnen might struggle, sure... not being able to take Mike down and keep him there might come into debate. But again, Sonnen vs. Silva happened. And Sonnen took Silva down repeatedly. There's really no disputing that. He's shown that he can take Silva down easily. And he's likely to do so again (though whether he gets subbed is a different story). If Sonnen wants this fight on the ground, their first fight dictates it's likely to go there. These are facts. Facts based on empirical evidence. Empirical evidence from a fight that happened and can't simply be ignored because we feel like it.

Finally, Bisping isn't Silva, and Silva isn't Bisping. What happened with Mike is irrelevant. All I took from that fight is that Bisping has far better TDD than Anderson Silva.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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People ask 'did you see the Bisping fight?' as though it means something. This isn't some universe where Sonnen never fought Silva, and didn't take him down multiple times for five rounds straight. The fact is, one doesn't need to see the Bisping fight. We've seen Sonnen vs. Silva, and we KNOW that the former can take the latter down almost at will. The proof is in the pudding. The tape exists.

Had these two men never fought, and we were looking to where Sonnen might struggle, sure... not being able to take Mike down and keep him there might come into debate. But again, Sonnen vs. Silva happened. And Sonnen took Silva down repeatedly. There's really no disputing that. He's shown that he can take Silva down easily. And he's likely to do so again (though whether he gets subbed is a different story). If Sonnen wants this fight on the ground, their first fight dictates it's likely to go there. These are facts. Facts based on empirical evidence. Empirical evidence from a fight that happened and can't simply be ignored because we feel like it.

Finally, Bisping isn't Silva, and Silva isn't Bisping. What happened with Mike is irrelevant. All I took from that fight is that Bisping has far better TDD than Anderson Silva.
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Did you see the first Anderson/Sonnen fight?

Ive always said that Bisping has very underrated wrestling and good TD defense. Way better than Anderson and yet Sonnen was able to take him down but not keep him there, until the third round.

You're missing the point. Bisping grew up in England, with no more of a wrestling program than Brazil. Suggesting that "someone who has never wrestled can simply train TDD for a few months and poof" makes no sense when we consider that Bisping shut down Sonnen's wrestling. You can in fact learn new skills, and I'd wager that Silva has far better resources to delve into to improve his wrestling than the Wolf's Lair or wherever Bisping is at.

I'll take bets right now... chael is gonna tap or nap.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You're missing the point. Bisping grew up in England, with no more of a wrestling program than Brazil. Suggesting that "someone who has never wrestled can simply train TDD for a few months and poof" makes no sense when we consider that Bisping shut down Sonnen's wrestling. You can in fact learn new skills, and I'd wager that Silva has far better resources to delve into to improve his wrestling than the Wolf's Lair or wherever Bisping is at.
What point am I missing? I never said one couldn't learn new skills. I simply don't like it when people pretend as though the first fight never happened. Coming into a thread and stating that Sonnen will have trouble taking Silva down, or that he won't be able to period when he was able to with ease in their first fight is called wilful blindness. Sonnen's effectiveness against Anderson in the first fight isn't something that can simply be brushed aside. Until Anderson shows the world that he can stuff Sonnen's best takedown attempts, we have every right to refer back to the tape. If anything, the onus is on Silva, and not Chael.

And I disagree about Bisping. He's always had relatively good to excellent TDD (his first round with Mayhem notwithstanding). I seem to recall Rashad having certain difficulties, as well as Kang, and other high profile wrestlers. Even when Mike is taken down, he's always been very difficult to control. Whereas Silva's one flaw has always been the takedown. Are you going to try and tell me that he hasn't been drilling TDD ever since the Dan Henderson fight? And yet, Chael still took him down at will.

Anderson's been working on that one chink in his armour for years. Guaranteed. If he couldn't stop Chael before, he won't be able to this coming fight. I'd bet my house on a takedown each and every round.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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What point am I missing? I never said one couldn't learn new skills. I simply don't like it when people pretend as though the first fight never happened. Coming into a thread and stating that Sonnen will have trouble taking Silva down, or that he won't be able to period when he was able to with ease in their first fight is called wilful blindness. Sonnen's effectiveness against Anderson in the first fight isn't something that can simply be brushed aside. Until Anderson shows the world that he can stuff Sonnen's best takedown attempts, we have every right to refer back to the tape. If anything, the onus is on Silva, and not Chael.

And I disagree about Bisping. He's always had relatively good to excellent TDD (his first round with Mayhem notwithstanding). I seem to recall Rashad having certain difficulties, as well as Kang, and other high profile wrestlers. Even when Mike is taken down, he's always been very difficult to control. Whereas Silva's one flaw has always been the takedown. Are you going to try and tell me that he hasn't been drilling TDD ever since the Dan Henderson fight? And yet, Chael still took him down at will.

Anderson's been working on that one chink in his armour for years. Guaranteed. If he couldn't stop Chael before, he won't be able to this coming fight. I'd bet my house on a takedown each and every round.
What I'm saying is that if Bisping could learn that level of TDD, so can Anderson. Bisping had the advantage of seeing Chael vs Anderson 1. So will Anderson, this time.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You're missing the point. Bisping grew up in England, with no more of a wrestling program than Brazil. Suggesting that "someone who has never wrestled can simply train TDD for a few months and poof" makes no sense when we consider that Bisping shut down Sonnen's wrestling. You can in fact learn new skills, and I'd wager that Silva has far better resources to delve into to improve his wrestling than the Wolf's Lair or wherever Bisping is at.

I'll take bets right now... chael is gonna tap or nap.
I think you are missng the point. Bisping has shown a history of dealing with wrestlers succesfully as mentioned before while Anderson has not, and Anderson was already taken down at will by Sonnen.

This tells me that Bisping has dedicated himself over a long period of time to wrestling and TD defense.

Silva training TDD for a few months is not enough.

Now whether Silva subs Sonnen after being taken down is another story, but anyone saying Sonnen will not be able to take Silva down multiple times in the fight does not have much to base that on.

And I would not say Bisping "shut down" Sonnens wrestling. The third round was dominated by Sonnen and Sonnen took Bisping down multiple times in the first round but could not keep him there long. The second round Sonnen did not have much success.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I think you are missng the point. Bisping has shown a history of dealing with wrestlers succesfully as mentioned before while Anderson has not, and Anderson was already taken down at will by Sonnen.

This tells me that Bisping has dedicated himself over a long period of time to wrestling and TD defense.

Silva training TDD for a few months is not enough.

Now whether Silva subs Sonnen after being taken down is another story, but anyone saying Sonnen will not be able to take Silva down multiple times in the fight does not have much to base that on.

And I would not say Bisping "shut down" Sonnens wrestling. The third round was dominated by Sonnen and Sonnen took Bisping down multiple times in the first round but could not keep him there long. The second round Sonnen did not have much success.
Sonnen looked good at the very end, like someone reminded him "hey, you can wrestle." and won a decision that most think he lost. but andy crushed hendo. he also crushed franklin who was actually a wrestling instructor prior. He wrecked Fryklund who was training at Miletich and should have been a powerful wrestler. He also made Okami who was supposed to have become a Sonnen wrestling protege look like a fool.

Chael is the only guy who was able to hold Silva down like that. It's not like wrestling is Silva's established weakness. Andy is more likely imo to successfully train TDD than that Chael is to become an epic sub defender (his main weakness). And if Silva doesn't need to worry about TD's I don't see how Chael can last on the feet like he did before.
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