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Old 04-18-2012, 06:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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JDS is plain better than this juicing freak.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If this were a juicing contest Overeem would win every time. I think after Overeem loses this fight, he should go into marketing and sell his own fruit/vegetable juicer. I want to put an Overeem juicer next to my Foreman grill.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Overeem is still gonna take it. Overeem will win, and I will feel dirty for still liking him. That's how it's gonna go...my night anyways.

I started as one of you guys. Freaking out when someone gets caught cheating, dropping them off my fan list. If they weren't on my fan list I would simply assault them verbally via forum (accomplishing nothing, I am aware). Sherk and Barnett probably took most of my wrath. I'm sure some of my posts back then make me sound like a complete hypocrite, actually! I say that because I really don't care anymore.

I will start caring about ped abuse when the punishments start to mean something. I will start caring when there are not infinite loopholes. You guys remember this is the first time Overeem tested positive right? So clearly Overeem has been getting away with it for years.

Clearly Overeem has been abusing a ped of some sort and has been able to pass the tests. I'm not trying to insinuate that we should allow steroids. Rather, a stance should be taken. Either you guys who still feel outraged say something about it, the UFC adopts a much stricter policy, or their own punishments, or the athletic commisions need to enforce longer bans. What's 6 months when you only fight 3 times a year anyways? For some of these high profile guys it just means a little vacation time before the next big payday.

I'm sorry, but I decided a long time ago that if I want to remain a fan of MMA that I need to just go along for the ride and not start hating every fighter I like watching because he bent the rules. I love Wandy. I actually still love GSP. I love Overeem. I love Anderson. So I got one left that hasn't been seriously accused of being a cheater.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The thing is, nearly all of Overeem's success can be attributed to his size increase. Without his size he's losing to Forrest Griffin and Ryan Bader at LHW. What's the point of being a fan if that's the case, he's not even good at fighting. He's good at hiding that he used PED's. Well he was good at it.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rabakill View Post
The thing is, nearly all of Overeem's success can be attributed to his size increase. Without his size he's losing to Forrest Griffin and Ryan Bader at LHW. What's the point of being a fan if that's the case, he's not even good at fighting. He's good at hiding that he used PED's. Well he was good at it.
That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Just because two things happen at the same time does not me they correlate to each other. Suggesting that is almost like saying all Overeem did was take peds and go to the gym and that made him a good enough striker to win the K-1 GP.

Clearly he improved his technique over the last 5 years. It is quite silly to think he is exactly the same fighter he was 5-7 years ago in Pride. Clearly he had to evolve as a fighter as well.

Also people forget he moved up to HW. HW is clearly the thinnest division with the least amount of talent. There just are not that many athletic guys that are that big, especially because the sport is so young.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rabakill View Post
The thing is, nearly all of Overeem's success can be attributed to his size increase. Without his size he's losing to Forrest Griffin and Ryan Bader at LHW. What's the point of being a fan if that's the case, he's not even good at fighting. He's good at hiding that he used PED's. Well he was good at it.
Unbelievable. So many things wrong with your "statement".

Overeem went up in size because the cut to LHW was getting too tough and I have no reason to doubt that, he's tall and look underfed at 205. He's fighting bigger guys who aren't as athletic for him, so there's a big reason for his success. To claim his size made his succeed and hold three belts at the same time is absurd.

Overeem as a LHW vs Griffin and Bader? My money's on Overeem all the way...

Maybe one day people will think about what they say and actually understand a situation before making idiotic comments: he didn't test positive for any PED, it was elevated testosterone, he didn't actually fail any drug test.

the problem nowadays is people can't give others credit because they haven't accomplished nearly as much. If what you said made any sense, anyone could take roids and become a champion. Remember when people used to say Lidell was on roids because his abs stuck out like a fat belly (possible steroid effect). He never failed a test, but people still made assumptions based on appearance.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Unbelievable. So many things wrong with your "statement".

Overeem went up in size because the cut to LHW was getting too tough and I have no reason to doubt that, he's tall and look underfed at 205. He's fighting bigger guys who aren't as athletic for him, so there's a big reason for his success. To claim his size made his succeed and hold three belts at the same time is absurd.

Overeem as a LHW vs Griffin and Bader? My money's on Overeem all the way...

Maybe one day people will think about what they say and actually understand a situation before making idiotic comments: he didn't test positive for any PED, it was elevated testosterone, he didn't actually fail any drug test.

the problem nowadays is people can't give others credit because they haven't accomplished nearly as much. If what you said made any sense, anyone could take roids and become a champion. Remember when people used to say Lidell was on roids because his abs stuck out like a fat belly (possible steroid effect). He never failed a test, but people still made assumptions based on appearance.
Well if you want to get all technical and everything, you have a glaring error in your statement as well!

There is no way to test total testosterone in a urine sample, they can only test the T:E ratio. So what they found was an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. There is a chance his T levels were normal and for some reason his E levels where depleted.

If you are going to get on your high horse about facts, make sure yours are correct too!
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanTheJu View Post
Well if you want to get all technical and everything, you have a glaring error in your statement as well!

There is no way to test total testosterone in a urine sample, they can only test the T:E ratio. So what they found was an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. There is a chance his T levels were normal and for some reason his E levels where depleted.

If you are going to get on your high horse about facts, make sure yours are correct too!
If you want to get very technical it doesn't matter if his E is low for some kind of reason because the T/E ratio is what matters. E stays the same at all times in every healthy man and it's linked to your T. Even if his T is within the usual range it's the ratio that matters. If it's off then some of that T came from an injection.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Just because two things happen at the same time does not me they correlate to each other. Suggesting that is almost like saying all Overeem did was take peds and go to the gym and that made him a good enough striker to win the K-1 GP.

Clearly he improved his technique over the last 5 years. It is quite silly to think he is exactly the same fighter he was 5-7 years ago in Pride. Clearly he had to evolve as a fighter as well.

Also people forget he moved up to HW. HW is clearly the thinnest division with the least amount of talent. There just are not that many athletic guys that are that big, especially because the sport is so young.
He loses 7 out of 15 fights to light then goes up to HW full-time and wins 13 out of 14. There is a direct correlation between his size increase and his accomplishments. Had he not moved up to heavyweight he would not be competing in mma anymore because he couldn't beat the LHW's.

The big if in the whole equation is whether he juiced or not, if he didn't, then he could have reached the weight naturally and he earned what he has. If he did juice he would have been a tiny HW or stayed in LHW and gotten crushed.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
If you want to get very technical it doesn't matter if his E is low for some kind of reason because the T/E ratio is what matters. E stays the same at all times in every healthy man and it's linked to your T. Even if his T is within the usual range it's the ratio that matters. If it's off then some of that T came from an injection.
That is not true at all. If his total testosterone is in the normal range, and his E is low (which is possible) the ratio would be skewed. While a high T:E ratio is in indicator of a T injection, it is not proof of it. While it is rare, some men can experience a decreased E level.

Quote:
Even if his T is within the usual range it's the ratio that matters. If it's off then some of that T came from an injection.
That statement is not factual at all. The T:E ratio is NOT AT ALL proof of external testosterone!

If his T is in the normal range, the ratio means nothing, other than his E could be deficient.

Now, I am not saying he isnt using something, I think he is. But there is no factual evidence that he is. The only facts we have so far is that his T:E ratio is way off.
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