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Old 04-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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See, the thing is T gets transformed into E by enzymes and they only stop when the normal T/E ratio for that specific man is reached. Obviously it varies from person to person but for 99% of athletes that ratio never goes over 6:1. Now if Overeem's ratio had been 7:1 or maybe 8:1 I'd say there's a chance he's the 1% but 14:1 or 11:1 (depending on the source)... man, I find it hard to argue that he didn't inject. Personally for me this is about TRT and if he had a prescription because I think he definitely injected testosterone.

Plus there is a precedent where a cyclist had normal T and lowered E and he was still banned. That makes chances even worse.
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
See, the thing is T gets transformed into E by enzymes and they only stop when the normal T/E ratio for that specific man is reached.
I am not sure where you get that info? Every medical journal I have ever read says there is no definitive proof of where it comes from!

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Obviously it varies from person to person but for 99% of athletes that ratio never goes over 6:1. Now if Overeem's ratio had been 7:1 or maybe 8:1 I'd say there's a chance he's the 1% but 14:1 or 11:1 (depending on the source)... man, I find it hard to argue that he didn't inject. Personally for me this is about TRT and if he had a prescription because I think he definitely injected testosterone.

Plus there is a precedent where a cyclist had normal T and lowered E and he was still banned. That makes chances even worse.
Yes, he was banned, but it was not because of his T:E ratio. They did a radio mass spectroscopy test and found that some of the testosterone in his body was synthetic. So he was banned because they found proof of external testosterone!
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I am not sure where you get that info? Every medical journal I have ever read says there is no definitive proof of where it comes from!
... I'm studying pharmacy.

The exact way our body synthesizes E is not known but there is an enzyme that can convert both E to T and T to E and it is inhibited by E, so it stops when there's enough E. So it could be a way to store T in the form of E (E being the inactive form of T). They found that out by injecting rats with E and testing their T and E levels.

edit: it's not proven for humans though...
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I hope everything goes as it should and we will see the fight in May. Go Reem!
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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He loses 7 out of 15 fights to light then goes up to HW full-time and wins 13 out of 14. There is a direct correlation between his size increase and his accomplishments. Had he not moved up to heavyweight he would not be competing in mma anymore because he couldn't beat the LHW's.

The big if in the whole equation is whether he juiced or not, if he didn't, then he could have reached the weight naturally and he earned what he has. If he did juice he would have been a tiny HW or stayed in LHW and gotten crushed.
There is no evidence of correlation based on what you said. All you did was state the simple fact that his record is much better at HW than it was at LHW. This could partially be because the HW division is much thinner in terms of skill and talent. This could partially be because he gained many new skills and techniques over the last few years. This could even possibly be because he uses some sort of ped. To think it is just one factor is simply ridiculous. As stated, following that logic all you have to do to be a great fighter is take some peds and bam!

Also if you just pay even the slightest attention to who the guy fought at LHW it makes the situation a lot more clear. Let's see, at lhw he lost to Chuck, Nog, Werdum, and Shogun. Some of the best in the world at the time, and all a lot more experienced than him, and all a lot older than him. Werdum at the time was clearly much bigger as well. Now flash to HW, who is his best win since his ped abuse? Lesnar and Werdum. Before that he has been crushing cans for the most part. So how can you point to ped abuse and claim that it is the only factor when the guy moved to a thin, weak division, and then fought average opponents until now?

I understand what you are saying in a way; that had Overeem stayed at lhw his career may not have progressed, but I disagree. I think he wasn't training as well back then. I think he is much more skilled than before. I think the move up to the weaker division and possibly ped abuse just made it all the more easy to apply the new training.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I have to be honest. I don't really care that Overeem uses, and I'll be thrilled if he's issued a license. I'm a fan of MMA. And I want to see great fights. Involving big names. And this fight is precisely that. I'm not a lobbyist. I'm not a politician. I'm not a tree hugging activist. And I'm not a goodie two-shoes whistle blower. I'm a fight fan, and this is a fight I've been dying to see. If it's on, it's on - and I'll be thrilled. If not, and Overeem is punished, then justice is done in that regard.

What I will not do, as a fight fan, is cry myself to sleep if and when this fight is made final. I'll jump for joy. I'll shout at the top of my lungs. I'll do a little dance. And I'll tune in for the fireworks. At the end of the day, Junior is going to smoke Allistair anyway, and that will be justice done in its own right.

I know, I know. Cheating makes a mockery of the sport. But were I to follow the wisdom of the forums, everything makes a mockery of the sport. Late stoppages. Early stoppages. Bad refereeing. Poor judging. Dana White. Smack talk. Tactical fighting. Fighting not to lose. Fighting not to get injured. Playing it safe. Playing it too violently. Too harsh a sanction. Not harsh a sanction enough. Ground work. Cutting promos. The UFC is always going to be slammed for something or someone, and so I fail to see the need to make an attempt to appease everyone. Because it isn't possible.

If your halo is on a little too tightly, then don't watch. Plain and simple
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I can't believe how many people are trying to defend him.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I'm not defending him. I just really don't care all that much.

I want to see the fight. I'm likely going to get to. And I've thought JDS was going to ruin him since before the steroid scandal broke. So where's my beef meant to come from?
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm not defending him. I just really don't care all that much.

I want to see the fight. I'm likely going to get to. And I've thought JDS was going to ruin him since before the steroid scandal broke. So where's my beef meant to come from?
Just because you think JDS was going to ruin Reem before the scandal broke doesn't mean he will.

I'm a huge UFC fan and I just wanted a good fight, not minding which way the fight went. Now that I know Reem is severely abusing whatever he is abusing, I find him to be a disgusting example of what a major player in the UFC should be.

Fine, if Dana White wants to let him fight. LET HIM...

Just don't make it a title fight.

edit: I notice you're a big Sonnen fan. Maybe you are just more interested in an entertaining fight them a legitimate one. You are certainly welcome to have those views, but it's simply unfair for the fighters who DON'T abuse advantageous drugs.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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For everything he uses, and I say that knowing the bare minimum fact wise, Reem's size can be his worst enemy. He can be slow. He can tire out. And when these things happen, he can be out-struck. Put him in there with a world class striker who doesn't tire out and can dance circles around him, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Junior hits just as hard as Overeem, and he does so with more speed. Allistair can catch you, but he has a more plodding pace. JDS will show the world that he is the best at HW when it comes to striking (of the UFC HWs, anyway).

Badr Hari didn't need hulking size to KO Overeem.
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