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Old 06-15-2012, 09:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MikeHawk View Post
I couldn't care less about Chael. I even said "who cares who he's talking about".

My problem is the way in which this doctor conducts himself.
Fair enough. But I still don't know what you're taking issue with. Is it that he's stating a simple fact that only a tiny percentage of people in that age range should need TUE's to compete? Or that a glut of them, particularly one claiming that he'd somehow been a nationally successful male athlete without going through puberty, might indicate that some of the levels tested by doctors might be a result of steroid abuse?
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HexRei View Post
Chael himself said, in testimony to the CSAC, that he (and I quote) "never went through puberty".
Thanks, I did not know that.

Considering most boys hit puberty between ages 9-14...

Does this mean Chael heavily abused roids at a young age to where he didn't develop normally(as the doctor seems to claim)?
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HexRei View Post
Chael himself said, in testimony to the CSAC, that he (and I quote) "never went through puberty".
According to his behaviour he displays all the time in public, he finally might have fully hit his puberty right now
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trix View Post
Thanks, I did not know that.

Considering most boys hit puberty between ages 9-14...

Does this mean Chael heavily abused roids at a young age to where he didn't develop normally(as the doctor seems to claim)?
No, it means Chael is lying.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HexRei View Post
No, it means Chael is lying.
Chael doesn't have a massive bulky build like Marquardt, Anthony Johnson or Overeem. Hes never been a massive juggernaut who overpowered ppl with his physique.

If anything his physique looks close to Forrest Griffins build.

I couldn't see someone seriously accuse Forrest of being a roider.

It makes it difficult to take this mans claims about Chael being a muscle bound roider seriously.

I could see Chael being factual on naturally being deficient in testosterone. He's just never had the monstrous body of someone who roids seriously on a long term basis. He's always been slender & thin looking in comparison to the ppl hes faced.

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Old 06-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trix View Post
Chael doesn't have a massive bulky build like Marquardt, Anthony Johnson or Overeem. Hes never been a massive juggernaut who overpowered ppl with his physique.

If anything his physique looks close to Forrest Griffins build.

I couldn't see someone seriously accuse Forrest of being a roider.

It makes it difficult to take this mans claims about Chael being a muscle bound roider seriously.

I could see Chael being factual on naturally being deficient in testosterone. He's just never had the monstrous body of someone who roids seriously on a long term basis. He's always been slender & thin looking in comparison to the ppl hes faced.
oh yeah poor chael with 10% of a man's testosterone goes out and wins the state championship, NCAA all american and qualifies for the olympics.

In other news a one legged puppy just outran usain bolt and shattered the sound barrier.

Physique isn't the only indicator of steroid use. It can be one indicator, yes, but Tim Sylvia and Chris Leben show the exceptions.

The fact is Sonnen claimed to have never even gone through puberty, and in his "non puberty teens" he beat down wrestlers that trained their whole lives. It's like an 11 year old girl beating Cael Sanderson ... do you realize how impossible it would be to overpower that level of wrestler while being hormonally unable to put on barely a shred of muscle?

I mean we're not talking lil Rudy scoring once in a college game, we're talking consistently beating the most athletic beasts on the planet, with a severe handicap. It isn't statistically possible.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
oh yeah poor chael with 10% of a man's testosterone goes out and wins the state championship, NCAA all american and qualifies for the olympics.

In other news a one legged puppy just outran usain bolt and shattered the sound barrier.

Physique isn't the only indicator of steroid use. It can be one indicator, yes, but Tim Sylvia and Chris Leben show the exceptions.

The fact is Sonnen claimed to have never even gone through puberty, and in his "non puberty teens" he beat down wrestlers that trained their whole lives. It's like an 11 year old girl beating Cael Sanderson ... do you realize how impossible it would be to overpower that level of wrestler while being hormonally unable to put on barely a shred of muscle?

I mean we're not talking lil Rudy scoring once in a college game, we're talking consistently beating the most athletic beasts on the planet, with a severe handicap. It isn't statistically possible.

Wrestling isn't a weight lifting contest anymore than MMA, is.

Technique, timing and other factors that have little or nothing to do with brute physical strength matter.

"Doctor" Benjamin would probably look at Roy Nelson and say there is no way he could be competitive in mixed martial arts with that belly.

This must mean that Roy Nelson is abusing steroids -- its the only explanation, right?

Haha. Its sad when a person who is supposed to be a doctor is spewing hearsay and drunken fanboy musings as if it were scientific fact.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:28 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trix View Post
Wrestling isn't a weight lifting contest anymore than MMA, is.

Technique, timing and other factors that have little or nothing to do with brute physical strength matter.

"Doctor" Benjamin would probably look at Roy Nelson and say there is no way he could be competitive in mixed martial arts with that belly.

This must mean that Roy Nelson is abusing steroids -- its the only explanation, right?

Haha. Its sad when a person who is supposed to be a doctor is spewing hearsay and drunken fanboy musings as if it were scientific fact.
Strength isn't the only factor, but at the kind of levels Sonnen competed, EVERYONE is elite skilled. Even a 1% difference in ability is the difference between a champ and a guy who couldn't even make all american.

I mean at the Olympics in sprinting, the difference between Usain bolt and the guy that finishes last is < .1 secs. Do you really think any level of technique can overcome that big a gap in physicality? Wow with THAT much of a technique edge, if Chael actually had full testosterone then he would've pinned these olympic guys in 2 secs blindfolded!

Also Roy Nelson only looks bad, he is very strong and in great shape on the inside. He certainly isn't suffering from low testosterone or any major handicap, so your example is moot.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trix View Post
Wrestling isn't a weight lifting contest anymore than MMA, is.

Technique, timing and other factors that have little or nothing to do with brute physical strength matter.

"Doctor" Benjamin would probably look at Roy Nelson and say there is no way he could be competitive in mixed martial arts with that belly.

This must mean that Roy Nelson is abusing steroids -- its the only explanation, right?

Haha. Its sad when a person who is supposed to be a doctor is spewing hearsay and drunken fanboy musings as if it were scientific fact.
This is a terrible argument.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
Strength isn't the only factor, but at the kind of levels Sonnen competed, EVERYONE is elite skilled. Even a 1% difference in ability is the difference between a champ and a guy who couldn't even make all american.

I mean at the Olympics in sprinting, the difference between Usain bolt and the guy that finishes last is < .1 secs. Do you really think any level of technique can overcome that big a gap in physicality? Wow with THAT much of a technique edge, if Chael actually had full testosterone then he would've pinned these olympic guys in 2 secs blindfolded!

Also Roy Nelson only looks bad, he is very strong and in great shape on the inside. He certainly isn't suffering from low testosterone or any major handicap, so your example is moot.

Look at Jon Jones.

He looks skinny and feeble in comparison to everyone else at LWH. And yet, he out-wrestled practically everyone he faced. How does a person with skinny legs who visually lacks the brute strength and musculature out-wrestle those with denser physiques?

Considering I haven't been able to find a picture of Chael wrestling in college & I don't know that anyone else has seen one... How do we know that Chael didn't visually lack the type of ripped & bulky frame that is normally associated with steroid abuse?

If no one knew who Roy Nelson was they probably wouldn't believe that someone with his physique could be competitive at the highest level considering the athleticism involved...
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