Mixed Martial Arts Forum banner

Ref Josh Rosenthal Acknowledges Late Stoppage in Mark Munoz TKO Loss

3K views 22 replies 15 participants last post by  Leakler 
#1 ·
Jul 13, 2012 - Referees are often the brunt of criticism for their split-second decisions, but rarely do they publicly voice any post-fight opinion on their own performances. Even rarer is the situation when one admits a mistake. Usually, they simply leave their work as its own argument, leaving us to form our own conclusions.

That makes what Josh Rosenthal did this week all the more respectable. Less than one day after refereeing the Chris Weidman vs. Mark Munoz main event at UFC on FUEL 4, Rosenthal admitted what many had said: that he let the fight go on too long, and let Munoz take too many unnecessary blows.

Just about a minute and a half into the second round, Weidman dropped Munoz with a standing elbow strike and then rode him to the mat where he unloaded with a barrage of 17 punches. The entire sequence from start to finish took only about eight seconds, but many felt Rosenthal could have stepped in much earlier to save Munoz from taking unanswered strikes. Count him among his own critics.

"I came home and I watched it, and I was kind of like you know, if I was sitting here, watching this on the couch, I probably would have been talking smack about myself," he said on SiriusXM's Tapout Radio show.

Rosenthal went on to say he was "slow on the trigger" and let the fight go on a few punches too long.

That mirrors the complaints about the stoppage that flooded in right upon the bout's conclusion. On the FUEL TV post-fight show, UFC president Dana White was clearly angered, asking, "How can you be standing like this, looking down at a guy getting hammered like that and not think the fight needs to be stopped?"

It's a question we all wondered at the time, and Rosenthal says it's a fair one. He noted that given the potential stakes involved in a bout between two top 10 contenders and all the time the fighters put into preparing, he tries to offer each man every opportunity to continue. And in that particular mind set, he elected to give Munoz a bit longer than normal to defend himself. In hindsight, he admitted, it was simply too long.

Rosenthal was memorably the referee when Dan Henderson and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua fought at UFC 139, a fight which won him acclaim for allowing it continue to the final horn despite dominant stretches by both men at various stages of the fight. So he does have first-hand experience watching fighters rebound from seemingly disastrous situations, but this time, he says, he waited a little too long in seeing if the same kind of situation materialized. And in a refreshing move, he's standing up to take responsibility for it.

"I always say accountability is a huge part of the sport, and you are accountable for your actions," he said. "I feel like I was just a little slow on the trigger [Wednesday]. I don't want to see guys take unnecessary punishment. It's a rough sport. Everyone knows what they sign in for, but it's a millisecond-basis game. You're making choices right there on the spot, and in the heat of the moment, I felt like I was seeing some stuff. In hindsight, I have to step my game up and make sure I'm on point for the next guys."
This guy means well, everyone makes mistakes.

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012...owledges-late-stoppage-in-mark-munoz-tko-loss
 
#2 ·
Its a very fine line that a ref has to balance between being incompetent or being heralded as one of the best in the business. We all absolutely hate early stoppages and refs who shall remain unnamed ....... take some serious heat for those stoppages.

Think about Brock vs. Carwin, Nog vs. Mir, Hendo vs. Shogun. Any of those fights could have easily been stopped earlier and we likely wouldn't have complained but we ended up getting dramatically different results.

I give him props for manning up and admitting his mistake. Now that he's done that he's going to have to be really sharp so he doesn't make this mistake again or overcompensate and stop a fight early.
 
#4 ·
Hes my fav ref, so he made one mistake hes had many great calls! I like him because hes one of the few refs nowadays that actually gives the fighter taking a beating a chance to fight back

Sure that was a bad call but still its part of the sport, i loved how pride let te fights go longer, many times it was too long but still nowadyas too many refs stop the figh to early IMO...like the sonnen and AS fight, im not saying it was a bad call because sonnen was all turtled up BUT that was a huge fight, the ref could have waited some more. There were times that the ref could have stopped lesnar and carwin but look how that turned out

Kongo vs barry, shogun vs henderson, maynard vs edgar, mir vs big nog, theres a shit ton of fights where guys come back and its really annoying when a fighter is given 1 or 2 seconds to get back into the fight or the ref stops it
 
#7 ·
But had Munoz sat up and managed to scramble into a better position, Rosenthal would be praised for great refereeing.

Josh has the right idea, he's trying to let the fight be as natural as possible and not put a stoppage loss on a guy's record without being certain the fight should stop. They all make mistakes, and at the time of the fight the fighters appreciate being given a chance.

Maybe they won't in twenty years, but they know what they signed up for.
 
#12 ·
He made a mistake and he knows it, leave it now.

Thw Guy has said he knows he ****ed up but people wont drop it with him.... sadly
 
#14 ·
Look the fighters know the risk and its very common for them to ask refs to give them extra time to work when rocked and NOT stop it early...herb has a tendency to be too safe, he stops fights very early and i actually think some fights could have had different outcomes if the ref hadnt stopped it early

Im not saying he was right, i did yell to stop the fight also, but these tuing will happen, even the best refs will be late once in a while, sometimes the difference between a early ou late stoppage is just a couple of seconds and the refs wont always have the best angle every time, i know its their job and they have to alays try their best but i dont think its a job that you can always be perfect at, being a ref is ******* hard and the fighters know this also, he said hes sorry and im sure he will continue to be a great ref
 
#15 ·
I havent actually watched the fight yet, but I don't think this was such a respectable thing to do. He clearly heard Dana's remarks after the fight and knew that if his boss is unhappy with his performance, then theres a good chance he'll be sent packing. He did this as a last minute plea to keep his job.
 
#16 ·
He clearly heard Dana's remarks after the fight and knew that if his boss is unhappy with his performance, then theres a good chance he'll be sent packing. He did this as a last minute plea to keep his job.
Dana isn't his boss. The Nevada State Athletic Commission is.

The UFC have no say who referees their fights, as the refs are employed by the NSAC.
 
#18 ·
Please remember that these are humans using their judgement and weighing about a hundred variables in the span of a few seconds when making these decisions.

No excuses here- it was a late stoppage. My point is, these things are absolutely going to happen when people are involved.

Any ref on a given night could have had that same brain cramp.

.
 
#23 ·
We all sit here and complain when there is a late stoppage, but I guess none of us will ever be in the referees shoes. It's got to be a whole different ball game when you're in there, and I'd imagine it's very easy to mess up a call. I'm not saying it wasn't a late stoppage, because it was, but Rosenthal needs to be cut some slack.

Without referees giving a fighter more chance we probably wouldn't have seen fights like Maynard/Edgar, Shogun/Hendo as we see them now.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top