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Old 07-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is title lineage important to you?

How do you guys feel about the lineage of the UFC titles? They are easily the most coveted titles in MMA. For example, would you care if Anderson and GSP both ditched their titles and moved up weight classes, having not been beaten for them? To me, the title lineage is the only reason that I have to argue against either of those guys moving up. The Heavyweight title has had several instances of it being stripped due to doping or stripped due to ppl leaving the UFC. I wouldnt want to see that happen to the MW division. The WW division is the only one excluding the new weight classes that even tho theyre have been times where there were glitches, once GSP and Condit settle up, that winner would be the true WW Champion and that lineage is pretty perfect. Yeah BJ won the belt and then left, but he came back and lost in a title fight. All the WW interim champions have eventually had to fight the "real" champion so I consider that title to have "pure" lineage. Does any of this matter to you guys or do you not mind it if someone moves up leaves the org? To me, every time that the lineage is interrupted, I put a mental * next to the names of all the champions that follow.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I know what you mean, but I disagree.

All a belt really says is this guy has beaten everyone who people thaught could be number one.

If someone leaves and the belt happens to become vacant and someone else will winn this belt it will not mean less in any way IMO.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The concept of a "linear" belt is stupid IMO. Being linear champ doesn't really matter; if Silva retires champ and then Weidman becomes champion that doesn't mean anything because for all we know Weidman could be a superior champion to Silva. All it means is that we'll never know.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It's a case by case basis, it was a bigger issue when the Tito Ortiz's and Tim Sylvia's were champions. When GSP retires the welterweight division is so impressive that the champion will already have a certain degree of prestige. I would also argue that being in the top ten/top five in the Welterweight division is an amazing accomplishment. Conversely when Anderson Silva retires it's going to take a while for the MW champion to be viewed as legitimate. The big reason being that most of the MW's are hype based, the UFC doesn't corner the market on top of the field, and many of the contenders are 205 washouts.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes! if you didnt beat the champ, im sorry but you arent the champ....gotta beat the man to BE the man

thats why i REALLY dont want GSP, Aldo, Anderson or JBJ to move up and vacate the title, they worked their ass off to make that belt actually be important, beating them isnt just winning the belt, its the passing of the torch to a newer generation, even though i think it would be awesome to see silva retire undefeated in the UFC, he still cant

he has to lose to some1 and pass the torch for a new era of dominance, the one who beats him will be good enough to dominate maybe as long as he did

matt hughes did this with GSP and franklin did it with silva...real champions who lost their belt to other real champions, not paper champs like LHW (post chuck) good thing JBJ saved that belt and gave it back some prestige
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dtwizzy2k5 View Post
The concept of a "linear" belt is stupid IMO. Being linear champ doesn't really matter; if Silva retires champ and then Weidman becomes champion that doesn't mean anything because for all we know Weidman could be a superior champion to Silva. All it means is that we'll never know.
What if either Chael or Vitor became the champion after Anderson retired? Knowning that they both have lost to him, would it cause the title to lose any value in your mind?
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What if either Chael or Vitor became the champion after Anderson retired? Knowning that they both have lost to him, would it cause the title to lose any value in your mind?
They'd be champs but they'll be compared to the mw goat for their entire career which makes them look second best imo.

In a perfect world every new champ would defeat the prior one to move up but that won't always be the case and the new champs legacy will suffer because of it.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well by that logic Fedor lost and passed the Heavyweight GOAT/Champ to Werdum, who then lost to Overeem and passed it to him. Overeem defended his lineal title once against Brock Lesnar
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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i have always thought that the linear hw champ is/was the biggest joke in mma, randy couture did some very serious damage to the title when he left over contract problems, for me it wasnt until Dos Santos won the title and defended it that it felt like a true champ held the belt
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well by that logic Fedor lost and passed the Heavyweight GOAT/Champ to Werdum, who then lost to Overeem and passed it to him. Overeem defended his lineal title once against Brock Lesnar
So whomever defeats Overeem will be the GOAT which I believe Junior Dos Santos has already put together a resume that another win over Cain and a win over Overeem would establish his ahead of Fedor. Then again if Cain wins the title and then beats Overeem he would have a case(a tougher one) but he would be close to it.

If Overeem was able to beat the winner of Cain/JDS he would still be the linear champion but I don't think people would call him the GOAT but I believe the man who defeats him for the title(say a Werdum or Cormier)....yeah he could be a GOAT.

It's not the huge joke some people think it is.
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