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Old 08-13-2012, 10:07 AM   #31 (permalink)
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The thing that is most annoying is Jake knows he can clinch and out work 90% of his opponents and he knows he has a rock solid chin. So surely that means he should have the confidence to work for a finish on the ground.
He used to be more agressive in Elite XC and STRIKEFORCE I think like lots of other fighters who have been been around the block he is so desperate to stay in the UFC he wont take any risks.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:24 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Killstarz View Post
For the amount of hype he had coming into the UFC, with the exception of GSP, He should have finished everyone of those flights.

It doesn't help with Rogan constantly telling us how jake shields is the most amazing fighter ever on the ground etc
...True. Shields has and always be a submission fighter. That's his bread & butter. His stand-up isn't exciting, it's effective enough to keep opponents at bay while he tries to get his hands on you. Jake is hard to finish but he has a predictable gameplan for fighters to know " Hey, don't let Jake get his hands on you or drag you to the ground". Jake may not be that exciting but he's always a threat to any fighter because of his top level submission game...
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:25 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dem0x7 View Post
Dude I love grappling, but if that's the only thing you are good at then at lease do something exciting and attempt to finish the fight.

Guys like Joe Lauzon are guys I can appreciate, someone well rounded who has decent hands who can start the fight off standing and still make it a fight, and then once it hits the ground he's no slouch, he jumps on submissions right away and always finds a way to finish.
The fact of the matter is that just like with standup fighters grapplers have styles. Often those styles are determined by their instructor, their athletic ability and their predisposition towards certain moves. It's like wishing a boxer got more knockouts - the boxer probably wishes the same thing but it doesn't match his style. Certain grapplers are going to land more submissions based on their style, plain and simple. Shields could go for more but we might find that doing so kind of unravels his game.

I'm not saying he's not boring, but I do understand the why. Personally, I think he's a nightmare to face. A guy with a tough chin who's going to inevitably get you down and hold you there. That would just suck.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Killstarz View Post
For the amount of hype he had coming into the UFC, with the exception of GSP, He should have finished everyone of those flights.

It doesn't help with Rogan constantly telling us how jake shields is the most amazing fighter ever on the ground etc
The Hype was understandible after the Henderson beatdown - he should of never gone too welterweigh, a flat fight there against Herman is not a huge thing taken out of context, its just coming off a bunch of other bad performances. Hopefully we see him at his best at some point.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Shields is getting a lot of shit for this fight, but I'd like to point out that he had Herman's back in the first, with both hooks in, and Herman simply used the fence to pull himself up.

I think fence grabs should be legal, I believe the only rules that should exist in the octagon are ones that prevent major injuries and long-term damage, but right now fence grabs are illegal. And Herman probably saved himself from an early submission with an illegal defense.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:26 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Joabbuac View Post
The Hype was understandible after the Henderson beatdown - he should of never gone too welterweigh, a flat fight there against Herman is not a huge thing taken out of context, its just coming off a bunch of other bad performances. Hopefully we see him at his best at some point.
As has been discussed in other threads, this could be the key; Jake (IMO) has never looked particularly strong at WW- his grappling hasn't looked good, and he's looked tired a lot of the time.
I don't think that he should have been fighting at WW in the UFC, but he was brought over in an apparent bid to present a challenge to GSP in what then was a cleaned-out WW division.

That didn't work out for anyone.

I want to see what a strong, non-depleted Jake Shields brings to the UFC at MW, and while I'm obviously not convinced that he'll be a world-beater at this weight, the end-product has to be better than what we've seen out of him thus far in the octagon.

.

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Old 08-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by edlavis88 View Post
The thing that is most annoying is Jake knows he can clinch and out work 90% of his opponents and he knows he has a rock solid chin. So surely that means he should have the confidence to work for a finish on the ground.
He used to be more agressive in Elite XC and STRIKEFORCE I think like lots of other fighters who have been been around the block he is so desperate to stay in the UFC he wont take any risks.
I think this is a really good point, do you think because of Dana's three strike policy it makes fighters more cautious? Especially as Shields was 1-2 in his last three fights before going into the Herman bout he was maybe playing it ultra-safe to get a 2nd win in a row under his belt. Hopefully now with him being on a two fight win streak(if you can call it that) and being at his more comfortable middleweight we'll get to see the best of Jake.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
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jake only guys for the safest submission possible, anything that allows him to maintain control, that is what makes him boring. he has a great control game but beyond that there's not much there. it makes you wonder what would happen if he ever got a shot at silva or the top of the division
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:52 PM   #39 (permalink)
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jake only guys for the safest submission possible, anything that allows him to maintain control, that is what makes him boring. he has a great control game but beyond that there's not much there. it makes you wonder what would happen if he ever got a shot at silva or the top of the division
He got a shot at GSP... It was one of the most boring fights I've ever seen.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:46 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by H33LHooK View Post
As has been discussed in other threads, this could be the key; Jake (IMO) has never looked particularly strong at WW- his grappling hasn't looked good, and he's looked tired a lot of the time.
I don't think that he should have been fighting at WW in the UFC, but he was brought over in an apparent bid to present a challenge to GSP in what then was a cleaned-out WW division.

That didn't work out for anyone.

I want to see what a strong, non-depleted Jake Shields brings to the UFC at MW, and while I'm obviously not convinced that he'll be a world-beater at this weight, the end-product has to be better than what we've seen out of him thus far in the octagon.

.
You see and I'm just the opposite on this thought. Maybe Jake's body doesn't cut weight well... so he's more energized at MW; that's fine. However, he's going to be very under sized. Especially against people like Sonnen, Weidman, Munoz.... I even think Bisping would have the TDD and striking to dispatch this guy.

Ellenberger laid out the perfect solution for shields.

PS: if you google search 'jake shields'... "jake shields gay" is the second thing that pops up in the window. lulz

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