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post #131 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 09:21 AM
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Fair points that he does spend the vast bulk of his fight time on the mat, but I've seen him trade in nearly every fight he's been in and I've never seen him brutally tooled. (Recent loss aside, that knee to the body against the cage took his soul before Anderson then proceeded to rip what was left to shreds) Thats about as much proof as I need to decide I think his stand up skills are at least average, definitely not poor.

I'll take that you think his striking looks goofy and awkward but I think this about a lot of MMA fighters to be honest. Wanderlei Silva's striking technique is for the most part very incorrect technically speaking (wild swings and arm punches), Shane Carwin and Dan Henderson's boxing isn't the easiest on the eyes either, Fedor was as flat-footed as they come and overcommited to a lot of his power strikes. But I've always thought of MMA striking as boiling down to effectiveness as part of the fighter's game on the whole rather than technically correct boxing or kickboxing technique.

I've never been particularly impressed with anything Chael did on the feet, apart from the first Anderson fight of course, but I just don't think it's justified to call him a bad striker. He's certainly nowhere close to Shinya Aoki-like levels of ineptitude. As far as the spinning back fist and fighter IQ - it was the slip that led to his downfall, not the backfist. If Silva had countered the backfist and left Chael laying I'd completely agree with you, but he didn't. Spinning back fists don't land as often as other strikes, but it's not like the amount of times a guy slips throwing one is massive in comparison to other strikes.



That is true, however he also beat Sobral by UD in their first meeting. If I recall Chael also was quite young and weighed something like 196 pounds or similiar in that fight, he's a great deal more thickly muscled nowadays. However, I do expect Forrest to look absolutely enormous by comparison on fight night.
Yes indeed, I see what you mean. There are worse strikers out there for sure.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a decent striker stops Chaels takedowns & forces him to stand.
I mean with Silva there really was no doubt in my mind that he would have tooled Sonnen sooner or later, had he been able to continue to stop the takedown.

I wonder what happens with a guy like Forrest, who is well I dunno good at striking? atleast when he's awake fighting, not bored zombie, run away and cry Forrest.

Anyway I see your points & pretty much agree. He's not a disaster standing, IMO he's mediocre from what we have seen, and it's pretty hard to know since it ends up on the floor pretty fast most of the times.

Oh BTW I doubt Forrest will stop the takedown anyway so, I'm predicting 3 rounds of smothering from Sonnen.

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post #132 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 04:00 PM
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I've never been particularly impressed with anything Chael did on the feet, apart from the first Anderson fight of course, but I just don't think it's justified to call him a bad striker. He's certainly nowhere close to Shinya Aoki-like levels of ineptitude. As far as the spinning back fist and fighter IQ - it was the slip that led to his downfall, not the backfist. If Silva had countered the backfist and left Chael laying I'd completely agree with you, but he didn't. Spinning back fists don't land as often as other strikes, but it's not like the amount of times a guy slips throwing one is massive in comparison to other strikes.

Good posts.

But I don't agree with you here and I don't understand how people say this.

The spinning backfist didn't lead him to lose. The slip did??? Well didn't the sloppy, off-balance, spinning backfist MAKE him slip??? I mean how many spinning anything has Chael attempted in his whole career? I don't think a wrestler, who doesn't have the most agility when it comes to moving and throwing strikes should be attempting spinning backfists against the greatest striker in MMA. I would think that should be pretty obvious.

He slipped and lost because he attempted to throw a WILD, OFF BALANCE, SPINNING DERBY and swung so wild and incorrect that he landed on his face. He didn't slip because it was wet, or because there was a banana peel. He slipped because he has poor technique and most of all he got DESPERATE. If he wasn't desperate he wouldn't of thrown a spinning anything in a million years.

Last edited by jonnyg4508; 08-18-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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post #133 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 05:25 PM
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Good posts.

But I don't agree with you here and I don't understand how people say this.

The spinning backfist didn't lead him to lose. The slip did??? Well didn't the sloppy, off-balance, spinning backfist MAKE him slip??? I mean how many spinning anything has Chael attempted in his whole career? I don't think a wrestler, who doesn't have the most agility when it comes to moving and throwing strikes should be attempting spinning backfists against the greatest striker in MMA. I would think that should be pretty obvious.

He slipped and lost because he attempted to throw a WILD, OFF BALANCE, SPINNING DERBY and swung so wild and incorrect that he landed on his face. He didn't slip because it was wet, or because there was a banana peel. He slipped because he has poor technique and most of all he got DESPERATE. If he wasn't desperate he wouldn't of thrown a spinning anything in a million years.
It wasn't the slip or the actual punch that caused his loss. It was hos horrible fight iq that instead of laying flat like Okami and hoping to fend off Anderson with upkicks he sat on his ass and butt scooted to the fence. If you watch the fight Anderson was backing off to let him stand up expecting Shale to lay to his back. He only attacked when Shale butt scooted to the fence.

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post #134 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 05:33 PM
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I think he slipped because he slipped, and because fighters slip sometimes. Anderson slipped in their first fight and he wasn't even in the process of throwing anything, just moving around.

And wow, there you go again lazily throwing out this "desperate" theory of yours with absolutely nothing behind it. Also, capitals don't add any more weight to your speculation.

Anyway, yeah, it would be pretty interesting if Forrest showed some good TDD and this one stayed on the feet for a while. Forrest's reach advantage isn't that significant with his hands and I'd imagine if he throws a leg then Chael will probably be grabbing it and driving him straight to the floor.

Last edited by RWCNT; 08-18-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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post #135 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 05:53 PM
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Haha.. I think you are mistaking Babalu with Paulo Filho.

And yeah Chael was 201lbs against Babalu.

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Not even. Complete false memory syndrome. For some reason I thought I'd seen a UD win against Babalu on Sonnen's record in a 2 round fight. I was sure I'd watched the fight as well, so it looks like I got Babalu confused with....Homer Moore? I need some sleep
No I think you had it right, I remember Sonnen winning there first fight - Babalu thought he was robbed of the decision. Its not listed on sherdog, but its on some other sites.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma....c-b5d9ca1cbb69

Last edited by Joabbuac; 08-19-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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post #136 of 136 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 06:26 PM
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No I think you had it right, I remember Sonnen winning there first fight - Babalu thought he was robbed of the decision. Its not listed on sherdog, but its on some other sites.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma....c-b5d9ca1cbb69
Had a look at Shannon Ritch,Rob Emerson and Leben and they don't have their respective fights from that card on their record either.

For some reason this event must not be considered legitimate.







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