UFC 137 vs UFC 151 - why and...why not? - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The difference is with 137 the UFC felt Penn v Diaz was a legit main event.

With 151, no other fight could headline the event. When they failed to secure a main event fight they had to cancel.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
I will end up with something i've read in an article, on MMA Mania. A very good one.
I've been seeing this point brought up frequently. It's true that Jon Jones didn't put the other fighters in that situation, and he can't be held responsible for it. However, the fact is, he did have the ability to save them from it and he simply chose not to. A lot of other fighters would have done differently, and have in the past.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I am not trying to establish if Jones was a b*itch or a p*ssy or if GSP would have been one in certain circumstances.

"Woulda, shoulda, coulda"...the story of everyone's life.

The subject i am trying to adress here is: the UFC lost sight of the most important thing: the sport.
SOme time ago, when they merged WEC, bought SF and after they signed the FOX deal, they promissed to offer the best fights, involving the fighters, every time around.

The trend is, PPV have gone down, but as a MMA/fight fan, i don't care about that too much. It's ZUFFA's job. I understand they slowly wanna move away from the PPV model anyway.

But, even so, their PPV cards are the ones they are putting their biggest stars in, the one with the title fights..."the moneymaker fights". So, on paper, they should deliver and they should have the best of the best, putting on exciting fights.

But, it hasn't been so for the last 12 months (at least). Granted, there have been injuries, involving lots of champions or high ranked contenders.
But, tis has led Chris Clements fighting Matt Riddle on a PPV card. Holloway vs Edwards on a PPV card. Patrick Cote coming out of nowhere to jump on a PPV card. John Alessio, Eddie Yagin...the list goes on. No disrespect to them. They are doing their job as good as they can, but people won't pay to see them.

Look at Jones' latest card. He fought Evans in the main event. The long awaited, formerly canceled and rescheduled fight. The grudge fight. The UFC bet the house on that fight.

I am curious what would have happened if Jones would have injured himself 10 days before the fight?!
The co-main event of that card was Rory MacDonald vs ....... Che Mills. FFS....even hardcore fans had trouble understanding what Mills was doing on that card, against a guy like MacDonald...IN THE CO-MAIN EVENT!!!
They got their answer after the fight. The UFC f*cked up with that fight and everyone knew it...

It was gonna happen again at 151.

In fact i am curious what would the UFC have done, had Jones pulled out of 151...

Would they have canceled it? Or move on with Ellenberger vs Hieron as the main event?

I have no clue, but that just shows how shallow some of the cards have become.

I know they're putting some of the big names on FX cards, FUEL cards or on FOX...but they have spread themselves so far, they cannot see where the end is.

What happened at 151 should bring some common sense to the exec's (Dana) heads.

Sometimes, less is better.
I'm driving a huge truck here for work so I will keep it short and to the point. Woulda shoulda coulda pussied out for a coward reason but Jon Jones DID. That he knew the event will be cancelled without him is just the selfish cherry on the cowards cake. He should have felt honored that the UFC has put so much stock in him to carry an event. He has been Bitching about money well that was a great way to get more.

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Old 08-25-2012, 08:56 PM   #15 (permalink)

 
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There's a GIGANTIC difference between BJ Penn, the biggest draw in the history of the Lighter weight classes and one of the biggest draws in UFC history period vs. Nick Diaz, a highly entertaining fighter with a gigantic fan base and the ability to get his haters to buy his fights in hopes of seeing him get his ass kicked and Jake Ellenberger vs. Jay Hieron, who are good fighters but that's not the fight that's gonna get you to throw down 60 bucks and base an entire vacation around.
Is there really anything this post didn't clarify?

One more note maybe and that is that Condit was not a star, people were not lining up to buy a Carlos Condit PPV, hell why do you think Diaz/Condit was for the interim belt? Honestly because the fight needed "for the WW title" to help sell it.

Its not just the difference between the champ and the challenger getting hurt its the difference between a superstar who draws numbers and the challenger who had yet to truly establish himself as a PPV draw. Its like if Urijah Faber had been injured before his fight with Renan Barao the fight would have been cancelled but if Barao had been cancelled they would have replaced him.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
I'm driving a huge truck here for work so I will keep it short and to the point. Woulda shoulda coulda pussied out for a coward reason but Jon Jones DID. That he knew the event will be cancelled without him is just the selfish cherry on the cowards cake. He should have felt honored that the UFC has put so much stock in him to carry an event. He has been Bitching about money well that was a great way to get more.

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Yeah...Jones pussied out and, after that the UFC had so much faith in the product they were about to sell, they decided to destroy the product instead.

Long story short.


I like the fact the UFC got f*cked up.
Dana and his pals were probably thinking they are untouchable and can control everything.

Flash news...they aren't ...and they can't.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Is there really anything this post didn't clarify?

One more note maybe and that is that Condit was not a star, people were not lining up to buy a Carlos Condit PPV, hell why do you think Diaz/Condit was for the interim belt? Honestly because the fight needed "for the WW title" to help sell it.

Its not just the difference between the champ and the challenger getting hurt its the difference between a superstar who draws numbers and the challenger who had yet to truly establish himself as a PPV draw. Its like if Urijah Faber had been injured before his fight with Renan Barao the fight would have been cancelled but if Barao had been cancelled they would have replaced him.
Yeah..i agree.

But it's the UFC's job to make sure they have a good product, one they can advertise and sell.
It's not Jones' problem to solve, or any other fighter's job.

The UFC's latest actions and planning have guided them to this point.

Everyone agrees that the quality of the cards the UFC has put together has gone down. As shown in PPV buys and TV ratings.

AT some point something like this was bound to happen.

Honestly....are the bright minds working for the UFC so stupid, they didn't have a backup in case something went wrong, like it did?

Like i've said: Jones's previous card had Che Mills in the co-main event.

This one had Hieron...

Rumours say the UFC (Dana) knew Henderson was injured, at least one week before it became oficiall and he withdrew from the fight.

Were they (ARE THEY) really this stupid?!
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Yeah...Jones pussied out and, after that the UFC had so much faith in the product they were about to sell, they decided to destroy the product instead.

Long story short.


I like the fact the UFC got f*cked up.
Dana and his pals were probably thinking they are untouchable and can control everything.

Flash news...they aren't ...and they can't.
The UFC had so much faith in their CHAMPION that he wont B**** out for a B**** reason (Not just the UFC we all did. And all the fighers did). He had a 3 month training camp but needs 3 more weeks because of a change of opponents?? Thats the reason people hating him. Because he pulled the biggest bitch move a Champion can pull.

Jon Jones wasnt in a situation that Condit was in where he can fight now and have a None title fight or he can wait and get a title shot. There is nothing wrong with waiting for the title shot instead of taking the instant NONE title shot fight. Hell if Jon Jones was going to get a second belt if he decided to wait for Henderson then by all means i would have told Jones to wait and get a shot at a second belt. But instead Jon Jones was in the situation where he was the Champion and said he will fight on that Date and then backed out because he wanted 3 extra weeks to prepare even though his opponent had MUCH more then that going against him. THATS WHY JON JONES IS GETTING HATE. HE BACKED OUT FOR THE PUSSIEST REASON I HAVE SEEN SOMEONE BACK OUT FOR.

Jon Jones is physically gifted, skillfull, but he is also a Mental Coward and selfish brat. He has gone back on just about everything he has ever said. Remember when he was saying "I would never fight Rashad he is my brother" 5 min later "Well id fight Rashad if i had to".
Then where did his attitude about having to do what the company asks you to do Go??? Dont even have to mention the DUI that he said the UFC never has to worry about. Oh yeah how bout he blesses me by letting me buy his shirt??? Or goes and checks on his opponents so he can get some "FANS".

How can anyone ever trust him?? When his word doesnt mean jack sht to him. And its being proven over and over again. The guy says or does something phony every other week.

The guy is by far the fakest person in mma to date. Welll i take that back... maybe behind closed doors someone else is worse. But getting "caught wise" Jon Jones is at the front of the pack. Just like he is at the front of the pack skill wise.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
The UFC had so much faith in their CHAMPION that he wont B**** out for a B**** reason (Not just the UFC we all did. And all the fighers did). He had a 3 month training camp but needs 3 more weeks because of a change of opponents?? Thats the reason people hating him. Because he pulled the biggest bitch move a Champion can pull.

Jon Jones wasnt in a situation that Condit was in where he can fight now and have a None title fight or he can wait and get a title shot. There is nothing wrong with waiting for the title shot instead of taking the instant NONE title shot fight. Hell if Jon Jones was going to get a second belt if he decided to wait for Henderson then by all means i would have told Jones to wait and get a shot at a second belt. But instead Jon Jones was in the situation where he was the Champion and said he will fight on that Date and then backed out because he wanted 3 extra weeks to prepare even though his opponent had MUCH more then that going against him. THATS WHY JON JONES IS GETTING HATE. HE BACKED OUT FOR THE PUSSIEST REASON I HAVE SEEN SOMEONE BACK OUT FOR.

Jon Jones is physically gifted, skillfull, but he is also a Mental Coward and selfish brat. He has gone back on just about everything he has ever said. Remember when he was saying "I would never fight Rashad he is my brother" 5 min later "Well id fight Rashad if i had to".
Then where did his attitude about having to do what the company asks you to do Go??? Dont even have to mention the DUI that he said the UFC never has to worry about. Oh yeah how bout he blesses me by letting me buy his shirt??? Or goes and checks on his opponents so he can get some "FANS".

How can anyone ever trust him?? When his word doesnt mean jack sht to him. And its being proven over and over again. The guy says or does something phony every other week.

The guy is by far the fakest person in mma to date. Welll i take that back... maybe behind closed doors someone else is worse. But getting "caught wise" Jon Jones is at the front of the pack. Just like he is at the front of the pack skill wise.
Sorry mate, but why are you making this a case about Jones again?

I've said it previously: Jones can take a blame in the event being canceled and he could have saved the day. He didn't. Sucks for him...and other.
He knows it, others know it.


But...if everyone would take off their "love/hate glasses" and look at the whole picture and the events wich took place regarding 151, they would see what an awful job the UFC has done.

And i keep repeating myself. It's not just about 151. It's about a string of events that have seen the quality of ZUFFA's products goin down. And the trend is the same for the whole year.

The general consensus i've been reading online regarding this event and who people think to be the most responsible for the outcome, is the same: the UFC and the brilliant minds in charge.

Say what you want about Jones: pus*y, coward, b*itch, snake, fake, selfish, etc...

But the guy doesn't wear the responsability for the company and their decisions. At the end of the day he is just an employee.

The decisions wich affect him and the rest of his "colleagues" are taken by others - up in the offices - and, lately, those decisions have been nothing short of s*it.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Sorry mate, but why are you making this a case about Jones again?

I've said it previously: Jones can take a blame in the event being canceled and he could have saved the day. He didn't. Sucks for him...and other.
He knows it, others know it.


But...if everyone would take off their "love/hate glasses" and look at the whole picture and the events wich took place regarding 151, they would see what an awful job the UFC has done.

And i keep repeating myself. It's not just about 151. It's about a string of events that have seen the quality of ZUFFA's products goin down. And the trend is the same for the whole year.

The general consensus i've been reading online regarding this event and who people think to be the most responsible for the outcome, is the same: the UFC and the brilliant minds in charge.

Say what you want about Jones: pus*y, coward, b*itch, snake, fake, selfish, etc...

But the guy doesn't wear the responsability for the company and their decisions. At the end of the day he is just an employee.

The decisions wich affect him and the rest of his "colleagues" are taken by others - up in the offices - and, lately, those decisions have been nothing short of s*it.

Because last i checked you were asking the difference between UFC 137 and UFC 151 which i explained to you. And then i ALSO explained why Jones is getting the hate he is getting. I explained everything to you that you needed explaining. But here il add some stuff.

That you believe the ufc is partially responsible also does not mean that Jones gets any less hate. It doesnt change Jones action in the slightest. It just means that the UFC should also be getting some hate and with the stuff iv read on this forum the UFC is getting exactly that.

That said Jones agreed to carry the event when he signed the contract to headline it. He knew he was the main attraction and knew if he backs out then the UFC wont be able to get another title fight to replace him. The UFC helped build his stock by putting the focus on him and his fight and we all saw how he repaid them. (Again what he did is disgusting and deserving of hate)

In the fight business it is common that the headlining fight is the whole reason people buy the event. Go look at the golden days of boxing and some of the biggest PPVs had a spectacular main event and the rest of the fights wernt even mentioned by anyone.
Now im not saying that the UFC should follow boxing in this category, i certainly dont want that. But what i do want and alot of other people want is alot of events. This is also a time where the UFC is trying to expand and get their product out there to the masses. So when you hold alot of events star quality is obviously going to get spread thin. For people to complain about a fight card that had "Hendo - Jones" headlining is simply because we have gotten spoiled. But i was excited to sit down watch some dog fights from people who havent established themselves yet because i am a FIGHT FAN. And then i was even more excited to watch JON JONES! fight Dan Henderson or even Chael Sonnen to cap off the night. (Jones who i consider one of the most exciting fighters currently in MMA and Henderson who i believe produces the best 1 punch knockouts.) I had absolutely no problems with the event the UFC was delivering, it was perfectly fine. Probably would have had more exciting fights then events that have all these star studded names on there. So that is why i am not hating on the UFC, because i see absolutely nothing they have to apologize for. Except maybe that they didnt try and bribe Jones with a sht load of cash and appease to his greedy selfish nature and convince him to honor his word.


Here you go Limba. All your questions are answered. Why people hate what Jones did and why the UFC is getting less hate and the difference between ufc 137 and 151. All of your questions should be clear as water that i filtered 5x over.
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