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Old 09-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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taking another look at the end of chucks reign....

I rewatched the chuck rampage 2 fight the other day from UFC 72 (think thats the correct event number?) and it got me thinking.... what would have happened had dan henderson fought chuck, in a champion versus champion fight, instead of rampage....

how do you think that fight could have went down?? and do you think it could have potentialy changed the LHW history on a bigger scale than just that one particular fight??
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Henderson would have KO'ed him, Chuck Liddell's Light Heavyweight Title run is and forever will be the most protected and overrated run of all time.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheLyotoLegion View Post
Henderson would have KO'ed him, Chuck Liddell's Light Heavyweight Title run is and forever will be the most protected and overrated run of all time.
Wow, now that is a statement. I know that most (if not all) his fights for his title were rematches, but I hardly think he was 'protected'. He fought at a time where Pride was a legit competitor, and a lot of fighters were loyal to that organization. Chuck was loyal to Dana, and fought where he held a belt. Guys like Jeremy Horn, Babalu etc. were no tamato cans for sure. They were the best that were available, and for sure very tough guys.

The fact is Chuck was a LEGIT beast, anyone who says otherwise should watch his bare knuckle fights in Brazil as a small example. Chuck was a warrior who fought anyone Dana could sign, and is one of the main reason's the UFC is what it is today.

And for the record, henderson could have attached a baseball bat to his 'H' bomb and hit Liddell with his hands down, and would not have come close to KO'ing him. That isn't even debatable. In his prime, Liddell couldn't be knocked out.

The fight would have been entertaining for sure, but if anyone was KO'ed it would have been Hendo.

A 'unhealthy' lifestyle hurt Liddell more than anything

Last edited by log : 09-03-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by log View Post
Wow, now that is a statement. I know that most (if not all) his fights for his title were rematches, but I hardly think he was 'protected'. He fought at a time where Pride was a legit competitor, and a lot of fighters were loyal to that organization. Chuck was loyal to Dana, and fought where he held a belt. Guys like Jeremy Horn, Babalu etc. were no tamato cans for sure. They were the best that were available, and for sure very tough guys.

The fact is Chuck was a LEGIT beast, anyone who says otherwise should watch his bare knuckle fights in Brazil as a small example. Chuck was a warrior who fought anyone Dana could sign, and is one of the main reason's the UFC is what it is today.

And for the record, henderson could have attached a baseball bat to his 'H' bomb and hit Liddell with his hands down, and would not have come close to KO'ing him. That isn't even debatable. In his prime, Liddell couldn't be knocked out.

The fight would have been entertaining for sure, but if anyone was KO'ed it would have been Hendo.

A 'unhealthy' lifestyle hurt Liddell more than anything
He was stopped by Randy with strikes and Rampage beat him to the point his corner threw in the towel, and in between both Rampage fights he didn't fight anyone whose known for knocking people out, Vernon White, Tito, Bablu, Horn, and Couture were his "prime" and they all played into his style, they couldn't take him down and they couldn't threaten him on the feet. Dan Henderson could have.

Put Liddell in Pride and he's on the same level as a Lil' Nog or Arona, not Shogun, Rampage, or Wanderlei.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by log View Post
Wow, now that is a statement. I know that most (if not all) his fights for his title were rematches, but I hardly think he was 'protected'. He fought at a time where Pride was a legit competitor, and a lot of fighters were loyal to that organization. Chuck was loyal to Dana, and fought where he held a belt. Guys like Jeremy Horn, Babalu etc. were no tamato cans for sure. They were the best that were available, and for sure very tough guys.

The fact is Chuck was a LEGIT beast, anyone who says otherwise should watch his bare knuckle fights in Brazil as a small example. Chuck was a warrior who fought anyone Dana could sign, and is one of the main reason's the UFC is what it is today.

And for the record, henderson could have attached a baseball bat to his 'H' bomb and hit Liddell with his hands down, and would not have come close to KO'ing him. That isn't even debatable. In his prime, Liddell couldn't be knocked out.

The fight would have been entertaining for sure, but if anyone was KO'ed it would have been Hendo.

A 'unhealthy' lifestyle hurt Liddell more than anything
Um... yeah, I have nothign else to add... well said

ADDED EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST, in response to LL: I will also say the Shogun, Rampage, and Wanderlie runs in Pride were exciting but incredibly overhyped themselves. Those guys were certainly elite, but the world beaters they were built up to be were clearly exposed when they debuted in the UFC. Yes Rampage took the title, but then lost it to Forrest in a fight he DID lose, Shogun also got defeated by Forrest and you can bitch about bad knees all you want but he lost, and Wanderlie came in and lost to Chuck, so I'm not sure how you can say Chuck was nothing compared to them.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ah, the Pride vs UFC discussion. Let me be clear, that back in the day I was more of a Pride guy than a UFC guy like everyone else. But we have all grown up, and know what time it is.

A lot of shady dealings were happening, but again when living in that era, Pride was a heck of a lot more entertaining, and had some amazing personalities.

Anyway, back to what we were discussing.

Neither Rampage nor Couture KO'ed Liddell. Henderson would not have been able to either.

If we are comparing losses, in Wand's first run in the UFC he was beaten by Ortiz and Belfort. Rua was a phenom, but like Belfort had a mystique about him that was exposed rather quickly. The Rampage fight deserves its own thread to really be fair, but at times some fighter just have anothers number. I'm sure no one would say Frankie Edgar was better than BJ Penn, but Frankie had BJ plain and simple. All are still super star's and scary as hell. But you can't tell me that Liddell wouldn't have put a fight against either man.

I'll end with this. All the guy's mentioned are legit. They stepped into a ring and fought entertaining fights. I will openly admit that I cheered for guys Chuck stepped in a cage against. At times, I wanted him to lose, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the hell out of him.

Chuck Liddell deserves to be known as one of the baddest men at 205.

Last edited by log : 09-03-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The first Liddell vs Jackson fight was the real Pride vs UFC fight, its was an awesome scrap and the better fighter won.

Chuck is a legend but like Shogun, Rampage, Hendo and Wandy are legends, they all lose fights. They've mostly all faced each other, all at different times in their careers and different stages of strength of competition, and to say one is a league above the rest is impossible IMO. Look at the records of Jackson and Rua, two brutal gauntlets of opponents which makes their amount of wins to losses very impressive.

Hendo vs Chuck, who knows? Wouldn't be surprised to see that fight go 5 rounds, Chuck would probably be able to keep the fight standing, Hendo can eat shots all night. Probably be similar to Liddell vs Wandy, if I had to pick someone to end the fight it would be Hendo.

Jackson was truly something else though, took Chuck out twice and beat Hendo soundly. Look past the interview antics and mistakes he's made, Quinton Jackson is one of MMA's top talents.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Chuck was punch drunk halfway into his career and had there not been a ref to stop Jackson he would have beat liddell to death KO/TKO its all the same.

I'm a big fan of Chuck and so is my 10 year old daughter. I take nothing away from his accomplishments but who the hell knows what would have happened, I sure as hell didn't see Wandy and Chuck going to a decision...

In his prime before the TBI, knee injuries and the drugs I'd have put it all down on Leddell to beat any of the guys mentioned.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Um... yeah, I have nothign else to add... well said

ADDED EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST, in response to LL: I will also say the Shogun, Rampage, and Wanderlie runs in Pride were exciting but incredibly overhyped themselves. Those guys were certainly elite, but the world beaters they were built up to be were clearly exposed when they debuted in the UFC. Yes Rampage took the title, but then lost it to Forrest in a fight he DID lose, Shogun also got defeated by Forrest and you can bitch about bad knees all you want but he lost, and Wanderlie came in and lost to Chuck, so I'm not sure how you can say Chuck was nothing compared to them.


Selective memory here? How can you say Shogun, Wanderlei, and Page's runs were overhyped (incredibly as you put it)? You cite them being exposed in the UFC when it's beyond obvious they were very weathered at that point and beyond their prime. Chuck was on the downward slope as well by now. I think if you remember how Page handled Chuck when he was in his Prime years and note how Shogun and Wanderlei looked at the time, I think it's fair to say that Chuck would have gotten beat by them in their prime. Not guaranteed but it's silly saying Chuck would have absolutely beat them.


P.S. Nobody said Chuck was nothing compared to the Pride guys. Silly logic is silly.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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if Chuck's title run is overrated, then what the hell do you call Tito's run?
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