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Old 09-13-2012, 12:29 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
Fighters fighting injured isn't good either. So no, the answer is not remove the health insurance.
Taking the insurance away isnt so the fighters will take the fights injured. I dont want that either and it seems everyone completely missed the point.

I believe it would cause the fighters to finally start training smarter in order to avoid the injuries all together. Just like before the healthcare got put out.


(Such a typical forum scenario)

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I was thinking this same thing. I hate to see all the changes going on, and the cancellations and such, but I don't expect fighters to fight injured either.

Maybe every event needs to have alternates at all the weight classes for that event on stand-by so if an injury occurs the show can be saved. And if these alternates were identified when the fight was booked, then the opponents would know in advance who they could be fighting in the case of an injury. It would also give the alternates more notice to be ready.

I don't know, I'm just reaching for solutions here. The injuries are getting so frequent, something has to be done.
Again im not trying to make it so fighters have to fight injured. I HOPE EVERYONE READS THIS!!!!!!


See that would work but the "alternates" still wouldnt really have a earlier notice. Since it would be unfair to expect someone to put money into a training camp knowing that he wont fight unless the guy gets injured. So he would probably still wait until the guy gets injured to start training seriously.

And lets be realistic...

The roster is getting spread thin as is. Having alternates for each "Main Event" would spread the Main Event worthy fights pretty thin. Much less if were talking about alternates for each Main card.

The idea could work in theory but it would need some work.

For instance... the alternates could get maybe a 10k paycheck just for getting in a training camp without knowing if they will fight. This is if were talking about only having alternates for the Co Main event and Main event. Since getting alternates for each fight is unrealistic.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Maybe more job security so they are not so afraid of fighting at less than 100%, losing, and worried that they might get cut.

Note: I have no idea if this is an actual issue regarding the prevalence of cancelled fights. It's just a thought.
It's definitely a factor. Not the only one, but yeah, you lose two or three fights in a row and are no longer a PPV Draw, Dana suddenly loses interest in you.
So why would you fight unless you were 100%.

But that's not the only factor. The level of fighting has gotten so much higher, plus the stakes of winning and losing are so much higher, that fighters are training harder and harder than ever before. I think they are pushing the limits much further than in the past, and it's showing up in training injuries.

Another factor. In the past it was simple. If you faught, you made money, if you didn't you had to bag groceries. Now these guys can fight and make enough money to carry them for a while, so if they have an injury, they can afford to not take the fight and not have to go seek part time work to pay the bills.

The proof of this is to notice how rarely and how few undercard fighters back down. It's always the Main and Co-Main event guys, the guys that already have bank and can afford to not fight vs fight and lose.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I think they're gonna have to somehow regulate how hard these guys fight in training.

Aldo is one of the rare ones that had an accident outside training. They already have the power to restrict that stuff in the contracts (dangerous activities like adventure sports etc.).

The bigger problem seems to be that mma has evolved to the point that these guys are literally doing a full fight every day in camp. Something needs to change.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I think they're gonna have to somehow regulate how hard these guys fight in training.

Aldo is one of the rare ones that had an accident outside training. They already have the power to restrict that stuff in the contracts (dangerous activities like adventure sports etc.).

The bigger problem seems to be that mma has evolved to the point that these guys are literally doing a full fight every day in camp. Something needs to change.
Thats exactly what im talking about. I cant think of many ways to have these guys train smarter instead of harder UNLESS they are going to be paying the bills if they get injured.

Do i think thats the best way to go about it...?? No.

But i cant think of anything else.

I wonder if Dana White has had a meeting with his fighters about this and told them to take it easier in training. That their injuries are starting to have a real negative impact on the sport.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
Thats exactly what im talking about. I cant think of many ways to have these guys train smarter instead of harder UNLESS they are going to be paying the bills if they get injured.

Do i think thats the best way to go about it...?? No.

But i cant think of anything else.

I wonder if Dana White has had a meeting with his fighters about this and told them to take it easier in training. That their injuries are starting to have a real negative impact on the sport.
I'm not sure depriving them of health insurance is the best or only way though. It might have a positive impact on training caution probably as you say, or it may make things worse by causing long term damage. Because fighters may continue to train the same out of habit, but try to brush away injuries and aggravate them, as getting them checked out is too expensive.

I know I've made tiny muscle tears turn into 4 month long full blown ruptures and temporary handicaps because I never got them looked at. Those months of recovery absolutely sucked.

As an alternative, I think they might be able to put together some sort of guidelines on maximum number of training hours a day, rest periods, some guide to sparring roughness or padding, gym and mat cleanliness for infections etc., and maybe have either full time observers in main/co-main eventers camps or random inspections to enforce the guidelines.

This is just me thinking out loud, I have no idea if this would be ridiculously impractical in reality or what other options may be there. Something needs to be done though I agree with you and most others on that, this is getting ridiculous and way beyond statistically normal.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
I'm not sure depriving them of health insurance is the best or only way though. It might have a positive impact on training caution probably as you say, or it may make things worse by causing long term damage. Because fighters may continue to train the same out of habit, but try to brush away injuries and aggravate them, as getting them checked out is too expensive.

I know I've made tiny muscle tears turn into 4 month long full blown ruptures and temporary handicaps because I never got them looked at. Those months of recovery absolutely sucked.

As an alternative, I think they might be able to put together some sort of guidelines on maximum number of training hours a day, rest periods, some guide to sparring roughness or padding, gym and mat cleanliness for infections etc., and maybe have either full time observers in main/co-main eventers camps or random inspections to enforce the guidelines.

This is just me thinking out loud, I have no idea if this would be ridiculously impractical in reality or what other options may be there. Something needs to be done though I agree with you and most others on that, this is getting ridiculous and way beyond statistically normal.
Yeah i mentioned i dont think its the best way either. It was me just spitballing.

Maybe some type of reward for not getting injured at the end of each year.

But how would that work lol??? There is plenty of guys who dont get injured in a year. So do they all get small paychecks??? Or do these rewards only apply to the main event???

I dunno...

But yeah its getting ridiculous. Im scared of buying tickets and making plans to an event at this point.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:40 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
Maybe some type of reward for not getting injured at the end of each year.

But how would that work lol??? There is plenty of guys who dont get injured in a year. So do they all get small paychecks??? Or do these rewards only apply to the main event???
Makes you lol, but I think that isn't such a bad idea. In Germany it's not uncommen that health insurances give some sort of bonus to clients that didn't get ill or injured during a year and if you go to the dentist once a year for several years to have your teeth checked, they would take over some of the costs for things they usually don't cover.

So a "health bonus" for fighters may help a little with the current situation. Something like fighters that have at least one fight in a year have to get medically checked for injuries every other month to make sure they don't have any considerable training injuries and additionally if they don't pull out of a fight they get a health bonus paycheck at the end of the year. The amount of bonus would depend on how big the fight purse would be. So that kind of extra reward might be an incentive for fighters to train smarter and less risky.

Edit: If the costs were to high, they could reduce the fight salaries and make the health bonus kind of a base salary. So fighters would not only be paid just for fighting, but for staying healthy and thereby staying available for fighting.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:48 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Makes you lol, but I think that isn't such a bad idea. In Germany it's not uncommen that health insurances give some sort of bonus to clients that didn't get ill or injured during a year and if you go to the dentist once a year for several years to have your teeth checked, they would take over some of the costs for things they usually don't cover.

So a "health bonus" for fighters may help a little with the current situation. Something like fighters that have at least one fight in a year have to get medically checked for injuries every other month to make sure they don't have any considerable training injuries and additionally if they don't pull out of a fight they get a health bonus paycheck at the end of the year. The amount of bonus would depend on how big the fight purse would be. So that kind of extra reward might be an incentive for fighters to train smarter and less risky.
Yeah i definitely think if a group of people sat down and worked on this for a few days that a reasonable solution could be worked out. Maybe merging several ideas and working out the kinks and what not.

its sad that its gotten to this point but the reality is that it HAS gotten to this point. The UFC needs to come up with something that would WANT the fighters to train smarter and not get injured so often. Cause currently they are all trying to give it 110% in practice and replicate it as close to the real thing as possible. And then they have to pull out of these fights. There needs to be some incentive for these guys to take less chances regarding injuries. Obviously hurting their body and cancelling a fight is not enough incentive. Probably because they believe that they "wont" get injured. Its that "It wont happen to me" mentality that people too often have.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:44 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Yeah i definitely think if a group of people sat down and worked on this for a few days that a reasonable solution could be worked out. Maybe merging several ideas and working out the kinks and what not.

its sad that its gotten to this point but the reality is that it HAS gotten to this point. The UFC needs to come up with something that would WANT the fighters to train smarter and not get injured so often. Cause currently they are all trying to give it 110% in practice and replicate it as close to the real thing as possible. And then they have to pull out of these fights. There needs to be some incentive for these guys to take less chances regarding injuries. Obviously hurting their body and cancelling a fight is not enough incentive. Probably because they believe that they "wont" get injured. Its that "It wont happen to me" mentality that people too often have.
Yes, most certainly. At the moment it's a "it won't happen to me mentallity", with a health bonus they may get a "what can I do to stay healthy and get that bonus?" mentallity. It really could shift the mentallity and make people more aware of the health issue, so they don't take their health for granted anymore, but take their health keeping as a goal and thereby putting more focus on staying healthy.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I really like the idea of injury free bonuses as well ... Someone should mention it to dana on twitter or something, you never know.
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